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Are there older students at hogwans too?
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately most hogwans cater mostly to elementary kids. Most have some middle schoolers, but few (that hire foreigners) have any high schoolers, which is a shame as these are the nicest to work with in small groups. Generally, the hogwans that have lots of MS and HS students and hire foreigners tend to be better, from what I've heard.

Hogwans are all about market demand, and if the owners see a demand for anything from kindy to adults they'll want you to cater to it, regardless of your preferences or what age you're more skilled at teaching.

It's fairly easy to land a middle school gig with EPIK (though the pay at the lower end of the scale is quite bad), but you may find yourself with very large classes you only see once a week in quite a regimented system.

June or July would be an unlikely time to start a public school gig - they'd be looking at late August.
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stat



Joined: 22 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
stat where are you from? You have funny vowel sounds.

Hogwan.

a hag is an old woman. sounds like bag, gag, rag

The Korean sounds do not really match the English sounds for most native speakers.

I met a Canadian who wrote and said "hagwon". All the Koreans laughed at him.


a hag is an old woman, but it's not that long 'a', it's a short 'a'. In Br. Eng, a similar 'a' is in cat, fat, mat, sat. The Br. Eng and Korean pronounciation of this 'a' is pretty close. The Korean pronunciation is like 'hack' (without aspirating the final 'k' sound).

the 'won' is exactly the same pronunciation as Korean currency.

Can't explain your Canadian acquaintance's experience I'm afraid, just telling it like it is.

edit: if you want to say it really right, although it's written as �п� (Hag-won), it's actually pronounced as �ϱ� (Ha-gwon) when you say it in conversation
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stat

The "��" sound in "�п�" is closest to "hot, cot, got, lot" for North American English speakers. That's why the Canadian speaker was confused. He was attempting to use a British transliteration which didn't match his native vowel pronunciation.

The "wan" sound is the closest to the wan or gwan of Hogwan.

It's the word "won" that's used for money that's funny.

one = won in English sound.

The Korean money word "won" sounds like wan = Juan (the Spanish name)

one, WON, fun, sun, done, money, wonderful (not the Korean sound)

Juan, WAN, John, Don, on, McDonald's, Hogwan

So, you're right, the money should be the Korean "WAN".


When I lived in France, I found that British English native speakers could never even come close to the French sound. For some reason, the same is true for Brits and the Korean sound.

Native speakers of Korean often cannot say "l" or "r" because they cannot hear the difference. Their ears and brains have been trained to group all of these sounds as"��" so that's what they hear and that's what they say. One of the hard tasks as a teacher is to train the students to both hear and pronounce the sound as both skills are connected in the brain.

The British have a similar problem that comes from the language sound system hardwired into their brains in childhood. Many Brits simply cannot hear the sounds correctly, so they don't know how silly they sound when they are speaking and transliterating French and Korean.
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Lizara



Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purely anecdotal of course, but I've noticed that although my Korean is generally better than that of my British boyfriend, I always struggle with that Korean "a" sound (can't type hangul on my computer, sorry) while people understand him immediately when he has to pronounce it. It's just not a vowel sound that's in my Canadian pronunciation.

so yeah, I'd write it as hagwon because that's the "correct" romanization, but I don't pronounce it like hag-one, I say it more like hogwon, approximating two short o sounds, and Koreans understand what I'm talking about. It seems like kind of a silly argument when I'm sure we all understand what people are talking about regardless of how they spell it.
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stat



Joined: 22 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
stat

The "��" sound in "�п�" is closest to "hot, cot, got, lot" for North American English speakers. That's why the Canadian speaker was confused. He was attempting to use a British transliteration which didn't match his native vowel pronunciation.

The "wan" sound is the closest to the wan or gwan of Hogwan.

It's the word "won" that's used for money that's funny.

one = won in English sound.

The Korean money word "won" sounds like wan = Juan (the Spanish name)

one, WON, fun, sun, done, money, wonderful (not the Korean sound)

Juan, WAN, John, Don, on, McDonald's, Hogwan

So, you're right, the money should be the Korean "WAN".


When I lived in France, I found that British English native speakers could never even come close to the French sound. For some reason, the same is true for Brits and the Korean sound.

Native speakers of Korean often cannot say "l" or "r" because they cannot hear the difference. Their ears and brains have been trained to group all of these sounds as"��" so that's what they hear and that's what they say. One of the hard tasks as a teacher is to train the students to both hear and pronounce the sound as both skills are connected in the brain.

The British have a similar problem that comes from the language sound system hardwired into their brains in childhood. Many Brits simply cannot hear the sounds correctly, so they don't know how silly they sound when they are speaking and transliterating French and Korean.


good post, thanks for sorting that out. i should've thought about n.american transliteration Smile i used to work with the mccune-reischer transliteration system (the system most used for academic stuff), and that treats the �� as 'a' - that's probably why i was so fixed about it being hagwon.

i would disagree with you though about brits not being able to hear the sounds correctly, or say it well. I consider myself to have not much of a problem with it, I think practice is the key thing. �� and the british 'a' are very similar, imho (of course, that depends what 'british english' you're using Smile mine's the queen's)
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stat wrote:
Don't be pissed off with me, I sound like a *beep* but I'm doing you a favor. If you ever refer to a hagwon as a hogwan, the person you're talking to is going to think you're a *beep* idiot.


You're not really doing anyone a favor, because your romanization is not the only possible one, so there's no reason to be so rude.

I prefer the spelling hogwon as well, not only because it's the closest spelling to the way I pronounce it (in North American phonetics), but also because hogging won is what they do best.
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stat



Joined: 22 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son Deureo! wrote:
stat wrote:
Don't be pissed off with me, I sound like a *beep* but I'm doing you a favor. If you ever refer to a hagwon as a hogwan, the person you're talking to is going to think you're a *beep* idiot.


You're not really doing anyone a favor, because your romanization is not the only possible one, so there's no reason to be so rude.

I prefer the spelling hogwon as well, not only because it's the closest spelling to the way I pronounce it (in North American phonetics), but also because hogging won is what they do best.


fair enough, i was drunk at the time. i stand corrected re: N.Americans' transliteration (as I said in the post above).
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Lemonade



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son Deureo! wrote:
stat wrote:
Don't be pissed off with me, I sound like a *beep* but I'm doing you a favor. If you ever refer to a hagwon as a hogwan, the person you're talking to is going to think you're a *beep* idiot.


You're not really doing anyone a favor, because your romanization is not the only possible one, so there's no reason to be so rude.

I prefer the spelling hogwon as well, not only because it's the closest spelling to the way I pronounce it (in North American phonetics), but also because hogging won is what they do best.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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escapeartist



Joined: 09 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I probably don't want to try and teach a group of 40 students as my first introduction to teaching English in Korea. Well that's good since I don't want to be out in the boondocks anyway. So what does "OP" stand for and how do you copy and paste what another person said into the body of your own message? I'm new to this whole forum thing. Thanks![/list][/quote]
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Poemer



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Mullae

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP= original post or original poster, depending on sentence context.
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stat



Joined: 22 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

escapeartist wrote:
how do you copy and paste what another person said into the body of your own message?


You have two choices.

1. You can click the 'reply with quote' button that appears at the top right of each post.

2. You can enter (quote="person's name")blah blah blah(/quote), but replacing the curved brackets with square brackets [ and ]

doing it the second way enables you to make false quotes, eg
George Dubbya wrote:
I'm a big dumb primate
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