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When will the US become bilingual?
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: When will the US become bilingual? Reply with quote

I know there's no official language at present either, so I'm not talking about official bilingualism, but when will the common impression from both within and without the US become "the US is a country with two languages, English and Spanish"?

All I know are facts like the one below, but I've never been to the US so I don't know what it actually feels like there.

Quote:
Spanish-language media are getting the most attention. The 2000 Census found that 12.5% of the U.S. population of more than 280 million was Hispanic — a bigger market than all of Canada — and projects the share to be nearly 18% by 2020.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please define bilingual.
An amendment in the constitution acknowledging Spanish as the other offical language?
Mandatory Spanish classes (or mandatory English as the situation/location warrants) in schools?
A certain percentage of the pop declared to be fluent in both?

I don't know what a bilingual country is, except for those countries who self-identify as having two official languages (Belgium, Canada, Ireland[?], Wales [?], Algeria)
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: When will the US become bilingual? Reply with quote

mithridates wrote:
All I know are facts like the one below, but I've never been to the US so I don't know what it actually feels like there.


Southern California is practically bilingual, or de facto bilingual, for all intents and purposes.

I know for a fact that it is similar in many parts of Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas as well.

Your question about the entire U.S. ignores regional diversity and variations. Maybe some parts of the U.S. will become officially bilingual and other parts not.


Last edited by Gopher on Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulsajo wrote:
Please define bilingual.
An amendment in the constitution acknowledging Spanish as the other offical language?
Mandatory Spanish classes (or mandatory English as the situation/location warrants) in schools?
A certain percentage of the pop declared to be fluent in both?

I don't know what a bilingual country is, except for those countries who self-identify as having two official languages (Belgium, Canada, Ireland[?], Wales [?], Algeria)


I'm talking about a shift in consciousness both within the country and without, where the impression most have is that "the US is a country with two languages," and an overall acceptance that that's the way things are and are going to be.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I mean, that's sort of vague, using that as a benchmark it arguably could have been anywhere from 5 years ago to 50 years from now...

I'm not trying to be argumentative just trying to help you define your terms. I think you need that if you hope to get meaningful answers.
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jinglejangle



Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Location: Far far far away.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way I can ever see the US being bilingual is if we kill off all the Asians and French/Creole speakers and such.

As the OP knows, I'm currently living very close to the Mexican border. Any given time I go out in public, I'm probably 90% likely to hear Spanish. That's if I don't go to a Spanish speaking store. The only decent music radio station here is the Spanish love song station. At perhaps 33% of stores you have the option of whether to use English or Spanish with the store clerk.

There is also a smattering of other language groups here, to include Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, Hopi, and Navajo. At least.

And this is a very small town. Back home in NC, far to the north and east, Spanish is becoming a major language as well. I also run into lots and lots of Africans and Pakistanis, Indians, and Mid Easterners there. There is also a sizeable and growing Korean population, and a Chinese population. None of these are trade languages yet except for Spanish, but they are a major concern for schools. So far the only "foreign" language radio stations I'm familiar with are spanish.

In California Asians of all descriptions are everywhere, both inside and outside Ethnic enclaves. As far north as Salinas Spanish is spoken in more homes than English. (over 50% in Salinas) My first weekend in San Fransisco, people spoke to me in at least 7 different languages. English, Spanish, Russian, French, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic and Armenian. Two dialects of Chinese as well, so I guess the actual number is 10.

You can get by knowing nothing but Spanish in most of this country with little difficulty other than maybe school.

I guess this isn't well written, but those are some of my impressions.
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jinglejangle



Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Location: Far far far away.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: When will the US become bilingual? Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Your question about the entire U.S. ignores regional diversity and variations. Maybe some parts of the U.S. will become officially bilingual and other parts not.


If we're talking officially, then officially several states are already bilingual, official languages being a state function.

(I learned this from that citizenship test posted here earlier this week. Laughing )

Official state languages listed there included Spanish, Hawaiian, Creole, French and I don't remember what all else.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mithridates wrote:
I'm talking about a shift in consciousness both within the country and without, where the impression most have is that "the US is a country with two languages," and an overall acceptance that that's the way things are and are going to be.


Well, as I said above, the reality on the ground in several parts of the U.S. is that it is bilingual or at least nearly bilingual.

As I have said elsewhere on this board, external perceptions and impressions of how things are in the U.S. suffer from simplistic analysis and a lack of familiarity with actual ground conditions. People in favor of immigration, for example, are now arguing that we need Latin Americans because they help us by doing the work that no one else wants to do; yet, Chilean and Brazilian friends have alleged to me that the U.S. entices Latin American immigrants in and then forces them to do menial work for explicitly racist reasons -- and let's not hijack this thread into a discussion on this point. I just meant to point out that external perceptions and impressions, especially respect to the U.S., are a little behind the reality, if not totally off base.

I wish we would become officially bilingual. As a friend once commented, we seem to be the only industrialized nation in the world that is proud to be monolingual -- Western Europeans, for example, tend to speak several languages.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
[
...I wish we would become officially bilingual. As a friend once commented, we seem to be the only industrialized nation in the world that is proud to be monolingual -- Western Europeans, for example, tend to speak several languages.


Why? Officially it's not such a great policy. Look at Canada. Very few Canadians (outside of Quebec) are relatively bilingual ( French and English), even though it has been official policy for years.
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red dog



Joined: 31 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Gopher wrote:
[
...I wish we would become officially bilingual. As a friend once commented, we seem to be the only industrialized nation in the world that is proud to be monolingual -- Western Europeans, for example, tend to speak several languages.


Why? Officially it's not such a great policy. Look at Canada. Very few Canadians (outside of Quebec) are relatively bilingual ( French and English), even though it has been official policy for years.


Maybe the problem was poor implementation? Maybe the importance of a second language should have been stressed more, and more should have been done to ensure that kids got exposed to their second language as early as possible?
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Porter_Goss



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Location: The Wrong Side of Right

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Several [American] states and territories are officially bilingual:
-Louisiana (English and French),
-New Mexico (English and Spanish),
-Hawaii (Hawaiian English and Hawaiian),
-Puerto Rico (Spanish and English),
-Guam (Chamorro and English),
-American Samoa (Samoan and English);

And one is officially trilingual:
-Northern Mariana Islands (English, Chamorro, and Carolinian).

Languages in the United States
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the marketplace is/has been leading the way for quite a while. There's a big Spanish-speaking client base to be tapped--it would be dumb to ignore it, no?.....so...a lot of businesses around here have bilingual signage/advertisements.....and this is the land of free enterprise Very Happy
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

red dog wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Gopher wrote:
[
...I wish we would become officially bilingual. As a friend once commented, we seem to be the only industrialized nation in the world that is proud to be monolingual -- Western Europeans, for example, tend to speak several languages.


Why? Officially it's not such a great policy. Look at Canada. Very few Canadians (outside of Quebec) are relatively bilingual ( French and English), even though it has been official policy for years.


Maybe the problem was poor implementation? Maybe the importance of a second language should have been stressed more, and more should have been done to ensure that kids got exposed to their second language as early as possible?


Good points, however the biggest problem by far was that the policy was imposed from the top down, when people didn't really care. Even after 4 years of MANATORY French classes in school most Canadians can't hold a basic conversation in French.

And most could care less. There is a lot of apathy and dislike towards French since it is seen as giving concessions to one particular province which gets a lot more 'goodies' than the rest of the provinces. A lot of Canadians just wish it would separate for good.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulsajo wrote:
Well, I mean, that's sort of vague, using that as a benchmark it arguably could have been anywhere from 5 years ago to 50 years from now...

I'm not trying to be argumentative just trying to help you define your terms. I think you need that if you hope to get meaningful answers.


Yeah, it was a bit vague on purpose because it's easy enough to make a country officially bilingual but still not have anyone really speak the other language, or know that it's being spoken. There are countries that are officially bilingual but not really, and others like Estonia that have a 25% Russian-speaking population but are officially unilingual because the much larger second language is a threat. It's easy enough to find stats on the use of a language but I would rather know what people's impressions are - whether it's seen as a threat / just an immigrant language, who's supporting bilingualism and how charismatic they are, um...
The best way to make official bilingualism work is to always concentrate on the point that the second language is a key to a much larger market as opposed to the Canadian approach (at least when I was in school) of "let's learn French to make people in Quebec happy!" - sans bringing in people from Quebec. The Social Studies teacher Ms. Lorscheider that everybody hated doubling as a French teacher was about the least effective way to teach the language ever.
My brother BTW is 14 years old, and next year when he starts high school next year he's taking Spanish and Chinese.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
There is a lot of apathy and dislike towards French.

I found in Brussels (I studied on a Flemish campus, the V.U.B.) there were similar antipathies even though there was less geographic separation and more functional bilingualism.
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