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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Helpful hints for talking to Foreigners |
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| DJTwoTone wrote: |
- It is common to shake someone��s hand when you meet them for the first time.
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isn't it funny how some Koreans will shake your hand everytime they see you and say goodbye to you? |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| rainbowtrout wrote: |
We are not Foreigners, we are: Westerners, People from another country", "native speakers" , "English Speakers" or better yet, "English, American, Canadian".
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Hate to tell you this, but many Westerners are not "English Speakers".
Also, what the heck do you think waigooksaram means? I'll tell you, it means the 2nd choice you gave, people from another country. So they are already taking your advice and calling you what you want."Native speaker" is completely useless.
And why stop at Canadian, I am from the East Coast, or better yet to make sure I am not a Newfie I can say New Brunswick, but then I might be Acadian, so I had better find something more detailed. Where does it stop really? Foreigner is fine. |
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DJTwoTone
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Location: Yangsan - I'm not sure where it is either
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Well... that didn't take too long to devolve into completely useless and irrelevant crap... Thanks to everyone who contributed, it sprung a lot of other ideas too. I let people know when it's done and if anyone wants a copy... I will proivide.
L8r |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| tell them to leave us the hell alone. |
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antoniothegreat
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: Yangpyeong
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| rainbowtrout wrote: |
We are not Foreigners, we are: Westerners, People from another country", "native speakers" , "English Speakers" or better yet, "English, American, Canadian".
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Hate to tell you this, but many Westerners are not "English Speakers".
Also, what the heck do you think waigooksaram means? I'll tell you, it means the 2nd choice you gave, people from another country. So they are already taking your advice and calling you what you want."Native speaker" is completely useless.
And why stop at Canadian, I am from the East Coast, or better yet to make sure I am not a Newfie I can say New Brunswick, but then I might be Acadian, so I had better find something more detailed. Where does it stop really? Foreigner is fine. |
for the purpose of this thread (the pamphlet) I want to say this. obviously, the term foreigner is deemed by some as offensive and some as appropriate. So I believe it is best to tell them not to use it. Just like in the USA, some African-Americans do not like the term "black." Some don't care, so to be careful I don't say black. Why argue? why risk getting someone mad? just dont use a term if you know a significant amount of us dont like it. |
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Lemonade
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
For heaven's sake,
Teach them to say "Excuse me" before trying to initiate a conversation.
There is nothing more annoying than walking down the street and having some "perhaps well meaning but naive" Korean kid scream "Hello, nice to meet you" when you are passing by. Then giggle and run away.
I am not meeting them, it just comes off as plain rude.
Why not teach them something like," Excuse me, could I talk to you for a minute"? |
I couldn't agree more. I've been teaching them to say "excuse me" for all the right reasons. I told fellow collegues and they laughed at me saying "good luck teaching them that." I ask if there is a similar word/s for "excuse me" in Korean and no one has told me of any. If you know of any, please let me know. Lord knows that Koreans never say a word when they bump or slam right into you. I had a guy knock all my groceries out of my little basket and he never said a word.... eggs broke and everything. He looked at me like it was all my fault .... for livin. I don't think they give a good god.... about being rude, especially towards waygooks. I tell students that their laughing after an introduction is considered rude, which provokes laughter anyway. I was told, "it's part of their culture." Hmmmm I shudder when Koreans ask me what I think about "Korean culture." I avoid the subject like the plague.... if rudeness = culture .... what can I say.
Sometimes I say, "if you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything at all." I teach that in class too. Oftentimes, Koreans say very very negative things towards people... picking faults constantly. I teach them to say positive things like, "that's a nice shirt" "I like you hat" etc etc. They think it's really funny to offer compliments rather that criticism towards people  . |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Helpful hints for talking to Foreigners |
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| DJTwoTone wrote: |
| It��s OK to talk to non-Koreans in English |
This seems to be the most troublesome item on your list.
Maybe you should devote a whole chapter to this question.
Different foreigners make different interpretations when Koreans speak to them in English.
When a Korean child speaks to me in English, I interpret it differently than when a Korean adult speaks to me in English.
I may be wrong, but when a Korean child speaks to me in English, it implies that the child wants to practice English.
However, when a Korean adult speaks to me in English, it implies that I am too stupid to learn Korean and he or she is too far superior to me to take a few seconds to help me learn Korean.
At least Korean children are willing to switch to Korean when I make it clear that I would rather speak Korean.
Many Korean adults flat out refuse.
One more thing: please mention that a ��ħ has more serious connotations in our culture. |
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out of context
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: |
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I have to say that I have met a number of Koreans who have initiated conversations in English with me very politely, with eye contact, smiles, "Excuse me", the whole works. However, such conversations inevitably seem to involve them asking me if I have accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and savior and if I would like to read the pamphlets they just happen to be carrying around.
My rule would be: If I'm walking, don't say anything. If I'm stationary, use small talk or something; you can ask me what I do here, but not (a) how old I am, (b) my marital status, (c) the rationale behind my marital status, and (d) my reasons for coming to Korea. And if I say I'm not interested in the pamphlets, don't persist. |
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Lemonade
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| rainbowtrout wrote: |
The first rule I teach my kids (and my co-teachers/Director) is:
"Foreigners" is a rude/rascist word. Look in the dictionary and Foreigners has 2 meanings (a person from another country - an OUTSIDER). The other meaning, Outsider, is a person who is not one of us, a person who can't be trusted.
So I teach my kids/Director that if they call someone from another country (tourist/teacher etc) a "Foreigner" their chances of friendship, or even conversation, are small.
For example:
"As a Foreigner, how do you like Korea?"
"No Foreigners" (eg., we don't serve Foreigners here)
We are not Foreigners, we are: Westerners, People from another country", "native speakers" , "English Speakers" or better yet, "English, American, Canadian".
My second rule is:
Don't ask Western People their age. This is seen by many Western People as extremely offensive. Koreans have to be taught that not every society is governed by slavish codes of behaviour based on filial piety and age.
Western People speak a language/have behaviour that is not based on formal respect for elders. So Koreans don't need to ask every Western Speaker their age.
If you ask someone in my country their age they are going to get really upset. Then you have no chance of a meaningful conversation with them.
Third rule: Don't ask personal questions. Like: "are your married?" "Why are you not married?" "How much money do you earn?" And the best yet, "Why are you so fat?" (asked of my mate).
I like to teach Koreans that just because you can speak a language it doesn't give you the licence to ask personal intrusive questions that are deemed rude in 99% of cultures.
These are the conversation rules I teach all my Korean students who interact with Westerners. |
I completely agree with you on your second and third rules. However, I completely disagree with you on your first rule. I'm technically an "ALIEN." I have an ARC card to prove it. Does that mean I want to be called an "alien?"  . I'd much rather be called a foreigner. In Korea, we ARE OUTSIDERS. I don't mind being considered one here in Korea. I won't soon forget what one of my adult students told me, "it must be really hard for you to live here in Korea because Koreans HATE foreigners." He meant every word of that. If you are not 100% born, breed and raised Korean you are an OUTSIDER and that includes half-breeds too. I call myself a foreigner ALL the time. I make it CLEAR that I am NOT Korean and I'm proud NOT to be Korean. I am proud of who I AM and if that means being a foreigner, then so be it. Now, let's eat. Difference is good! |
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excitinghead
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Lemonade wrote: |
I tell students that their laughing after an introduction is considered rude, which provokes laughter anyway. I was told, "it's part of their culture." Hmmmm I shudder when Koreans ask me what I think about "Korean culture." I avoid the subject like the plague.... if rudeness = culture .... what can I say. |
It's just a small thing, but I'd have to agree with whoever said to Lemonade that laughing "is part of their culture" and isn't rude. It's one of the few things that "Culture Shock Korea" has right, instead of just making excuses for what really is rude behaviour.
No matter how rude it appears to someone raised in a Western country, Koreans will always laugh or smile when embarassed and/or have done something wrong. When I first met my Korean wife and she would react like this I would just about explode; now, 5 years later, knowing that she isn't being rude doesn't mean I still don't instinctively get unbelievably angry when she does it...I've just learned to calm down quicker.
To give you another for instance, now that I'm speaking Korean more than English, Koreans will repeat what I say to any Koreans we're with like they were laughing at my poor skills and naive choice of words. Wanted to kill them at first too. But when even the closest of friends would do it, I had to admit that maybe they weren't being jerks, and when I asked them why they did it, they had to think for a loooong time but in the end said that they did it automatically and that it was more suprise, admiration and the strangeness of someone speaking Korean so well. Still wish they wouldn't though, and is demotivating for learning the language.
Maybe it is rude really, one culture's norm will always be another's rudeness, but however angry some Korean habit makes me knowing that
the people doing it are not necessarily being jerks makes it easier to calm down.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not making up excuses for rude behavior, just hopefully offering some helpful advice. And I do still think that things like bumping into you and not apologising because "they can't place you on their list of social hierarchies" (Culture Shock Korea) is a heap of **** and is just plain and simple rude. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Has anybody considered calling Koreans 'Orientals'.
Like 'Foreigner', this is also a rascist label in that it implies Koreans are just people from other countries (like China/Japan). The hidden meaning of the word Oriental is that Orientals are shiftless, sly, cunning, lie all the time, and can't be trusted. Hence the old British rascist lable of W.O.G. (Wiley Oriental Gentleman).
I nearly fell off my chair when one of my business clients called his co-workers Orientals. |
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Lemonade
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Koreans will always laugh or smile when embarassed and/or have done something wrong. |
This is sooooooooooooooo NOT true! Lord knows how many times I've caught them lying to my face and there's no laughing going on when I call them out on their lies. Lying IS doing something WRONG, right? I think lying is wrong. Is lying just another "part of their culture?" I call that worse than being rude. I simply lose respect for people who lie. I've NEVER heard about any story here in Korea where an ajoshi, ajuma or director of a hagwon laughed out loud when they did something wrong. There always seems to be a straight face when this happens. At least the Japanese bow when they do something "wrong" and they apologize repeatedly. If a Japanese man slammed into me and knocked all my groceries all over the floor he CERTAINLY would NOT ever do what that Korean man did to me... say nothing and give me a dirty look. He certainly did not laugh and it WAS his fault.
The truth is that Koreans feel embarrased to speak English, period. Why is that? I really don't care why. I set the standards as to what is acceptable and unacceptable in my classes. Laughing after saying hello is NOT acceptable to me and I make that clear from day one. I tell students to check their Korean culture at the door when they come in my class room. I really wish more teachers told their Korean students to do the same. Maybe it's not possilbe in hagwons ... but public schools and universities... yes. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, one just came to me:
If someone is reading/ listening to music/ talking to someone on the phone or whatever, don't interrupt them unless it's to ask if they dropped something, or tell them their fly is down  |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Lemonade wrote: |
The truth is that Koreans feel embarrased to speak English, period. Why is that? I really don't care why. I set the standards as to what is acceptable and unacceptable in my classes. Laughing after saying hello is NOT acceptable to me and I make that clear from day one. I tell students to check their Korean culture at the door when they come in my class room. |
You mean you actually prevent your k-students from giggling when attempting to communicate one-on-one in English? Good heavens, if I tried that I'd end up being one angry teacher.
Are you sure you should be teaching in this culture? |
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excitinghead
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry for my careless choice of words. When I said "do something wrong", I meant things like splling a drink on you desk or ruining your day by telling you about something at the last minute. To be more precise, accidents or mistakes, not anything done deliberately.
Most importantly, I meant average Koreans, the vast majority of whom are nice and friendly and embarassed about their mistakes, not those guys on power trips like most hogwan directors, stereotypical ajummas, or the guy you were unlucky to meet while shopping. I completely agree: I've never had anyone like that laugh or smile with embarassment, and they blame me if they can. But my point is that most Koreans call a spade a spade and don't like people like that either, and jerks will behave like jerks no matter what the culture.
Cheers. |
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