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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Lemonade

Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| You mean you actually prevent your k-students from giggling when attempting to communicate one-on-one in English? |
I discourage, not "prevent." I teach classrooms of over 40 rowdy college freshmen who are forced to take the course for their degree. A lot of them try to play games and laughing is just another avoidance game. When I come around to hear their conversations in English I make it clear that I don't have time to listen to laughing. Get to the point. They understand and they comply. I really don't have time to get to everyone in class if I'm listening to laughing for two hours. Use common sense here.
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| Good heavens, if I tried that I'd end up being one angry teacher |
Apparently we aren't teaching the same students. If so, we have a different teaching style....nothing wrong with that. By setting my expectations from day one, I've learned that they tend to comply and that prevents me from getting angry in the first place. My problem isn't with laughing and giggling.... it's with a classroom that gets too loud and they have to be quieter. I only get "angry" when students refuse to do their assignments that I give in class. Sometimes getting angry gets them motivated .... it's not always a BAD thing.
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| Are you sure you should be teaching in this culture |
I could ask you the same question. I think we can all ask ourselves the same question. |
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SuperHero

Joined: 10 Dec 2003 Location: Superhero Hideout
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I forget who wrote them but the two points of advice that I most support in this thread are to initiate eye contact before talking and that the first thing they should say is excuse me. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Location: $eoul
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Lemonade wrote: |
| I couldn't agree more. I've been teaching them to say "excuse me" for all the right reasons. I told fellow collegues and they laughed at me saying "good luck teaching them that." I ask if there is a similar word/s for "excuse me" in Korean and no one has told me of any. |
If you wanna interupt someone, I think the version is: �Ƿ����� (literally: "rude act, but......."; pronounced "sheel ye jee man")
If you want someone to get the heck out of your way, say ��ø��� (means "just a moment" really but is used by Koreans to mean 'move/budge'; pronounced "jam shee man yo")
When you ask a Korean what "excuse me" is in Korean, they ALWAYS say �Ƿ��մϴ� (sheel ye hamnida) but I've never, ever heard this used by anyone, and it's very formal, so it's a case of Koreans not thinking things through before they give you information about Korean, which isn't at all uncommon (a bit like how EVERY Korean will tell you 'please' in Korean is ����, which is actually more like "for God's sake!").
�����/����� are the 'excuse me' of getting someone's attention in a restaurant.
OP, While we're on the subject of 'excuse me', it'd be great if you added to your pamphlet the THREE "EXCUSE ME"s of English:
1. Excuse me (move out of my way please)
2. Excuse me (over here/hey you)
3. Excuse me? (what? pardon?)
Emphasize their importance; that to English-speakers, if you don't say 'excuse me' you're considered a rude bstd. Because Korean manners are completely different to ours, that's why many waegoogins think Koreans are ����.  |
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Lemonade

Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
OP, While we're on the subject of 'excuse me', it'd be great if you added to your pamphlet the THREE "EXCUSE ME"s of English:
1. Excuse me (move out of my way please)
2. Excuse me (over here/hey you)
3. Excuse me? (what? pardon?)
Emphasize their importance; that to English-speakers, if you don't say 'excuse me' you're considered a rude bstd. Because Korean manners are completely different to ours, that's why many waegoogins think Koreans are ����.  |
Very good. But what about the other less common ones such as:
4.) Excuse me!?! (out of shock or in defense of something said that was offensive.)
5.) Well, Excuuuuuuuuuse ME (out of disgust, sarcasm or reaction to an over reaction)
6.) EXCUSE ME!!!!!! (someone shouting to remind you that you are rude because you failed to say "excuse me")
Any others? |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Location: $eoul
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| lemonade wrote: |
4.) Excuse me!?! (out of shock or in defense of something said that was offensive.)
5.) Well, Excuuuuuuuuuse ME (out of disgust, sarcasm or reaction to an over reaction)
6.) EXCUSE ME!!!!!! (someone shouting to remind you that you are rude because you failed to say "excuse me") |
good questions. I dunno. |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Spinoza, the content of your post is very good,
but I thought that the purpose of this thread was to gather material for a handbook for Koreans speaking to foreigners, not for foreigners speaking to Koreans.
DJ Two Tone, am I right?
PS Spinoza, have you ever worked for the Brainy English chain?
According to one of their storybooks, Olympus Mons is a volcano in which the crater is full of ���̴�, and the people on Mars enjoy a cool and relaxing swim in the ���̴�.
I hope you always get to enjoy a cool and relaxing swim after a hard day's work. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Location: $eoul
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
Spinoza, the content of your post is very good,
but I thought that the purpose of this thread was to gather material for a handbook for Koreans speaking to foreigners, not for foreigners speaking to Koreans.
DJ Two Tone, am I right?
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I was responding the someone's (Lemonade's) question - see the text quoted. I ingeniusly made it relevant to the OP by suggesting he incorporates some stuff about 'excuse me' and its importance into his project.
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PS Spinoza, have you ever worked for the Brainy English chain?
According to one of their storybooks, Olympus Mons is a volcano in which the crater is full of ���̴�, and the people on Mars enjoy a cool and relaxing swim in the ���̴�.
I hope you always get to enjoy a cool and relaxing swim after a hard day's work. |
No, never worked for them. Hey - I wish my middle school's materials were as interesting as that!
Mount Olympus rules - 3.5-times the size of Everest (17 miles high I think). The most interesting object in the Solar System perhaps? |
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matthews_world
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: |
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I have learned from my students both young and old, is that when they attempt to speak English to a foreigner for a first time, Koreans are quite timid.
A common phrase muttered in speech is: "I'm sorry, my English is poor."
Foreigners already know that they are not native speakers, so one of the golden rules I teach is that they shouldn't worry about apologizing. They should be pro-active and be meeting other natives. |
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coolsage
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Teaching English is only some of our mandate here. The rest lies in imparting confidence in using the language. Encouraging students to speak up, to overcome their timidity, can produce impressive results. If one is around long enough to see progress, some come back from Nova Scotia raving about the music festivals and Tim Horton's blueberry muffins. If you can create an ambience within which the student feels comfortable about using English with a NS, he/she will do well in the larger world. Hell, once these students get out from under the repressive educational system that exists here, they very often shine. |
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Porter_Goss

Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Location: The Wrong Side of Right
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| rainbowtrout wrote: |
We are not Foreigners, we are: Westerners, People from another country", "native speakers" |
I thought they (Koreans) were the native speakers.
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na��tive (adj.) -
1.Existing in or belonging to one by nature; innate: native ability.
2.Being such by birth or origin: a native Korean.
3.Being one's own because of the place or circumstances of one's birth: our native land.
4.Originating, growing, or produced in a certain place or region; indigenous: a plant native to Korea.
5.Being a member of the original inhabitants of a particular place.
6.Of, belonging to, or characteristic of such inhabitants: native dress; the native diet of Korea.
7.Occurring in nature pure or uncombined with other substances: native copper.
8.Natural; unaffected: native beauty.
9.Archaic. Closely related, as by birth or race.
10.Biochemistry. Of or relating to the naturally occurring conformation of a macromolecule, such as a protein.
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But, I guess you probably mean native, as in "native English speakers." |
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steroidmaximus

Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Location: GangWon-Do
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Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:15 am Post subject: |
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You should teach them the more proper forms of greeting that will generally elicit more positive responses i.e. the standard formal ones taught to children in general:
-Good Morning
-Good Afternoon
-Good Evening
Hi and Hello are generally used more frequently between peers and friends and denote familiarity, and should be taught as such just as they are to children in our respective countries. Remember, we aren't reinventing the wheel, we're sharing situational, contextual usage of language. Saying Good Morning is considered by all as better mannered and exhibiting a more proper upbringing, and generally will dispose a person (often subconciously) to look more favorably at the speaker, especially if there is an obvious disparity in social standing, such as between a child and an adult. Hi uttered by a child, while not rude, does lead the listener in some cases to presume that the child is from a lower class, less priveledged background, or has been poorly taught.
English is also loaded with class distinctions, just as Korean, and as teachers it's our job to teach our students the differences. They should know that they will be judged by the type of language they use, and should be properly prepared. Teach them to avoid gender specific language for example, such as housewife, policeman, fireman, etc. Teach them that being well mannered will almost always pay off in spades.
Teach them that we are all people, and that if they approach us as they would any other person, they'll generally receive a positive response.
and yes, teach them that sometimes it is inappropriate to randomly approach strangers on the street, and to expect them to talk and respond. Maybe that person is in a rush, busy, or doesn't feel like talking. Just like any other person. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| steroidmaximus wrote: |
| and yes, teach them that sometimes it is inappropriate to randomly approach strangers on the street, and to expect them to talk and respond. Maybe that person is in a rush, busy, or doesn't feel like talking. Just like any other person. |
This past weekend a guy in the bar did the random approach English practice on me -- while he was on a date with a hot chick, who sat there bored and ignored. What's so great about asking me if I've ever eaten kimchi that you would interrupt your big date for it?
Also, if you are a Korean guy in a bar and I am finally getting somewhere with the cute bartender -- I DO NOT WANT TO TALK TO YOU. Thank you. |
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