Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Newbie]

Yes, I am having a bad month so I may be off, but does anyone else ever get the feeling that your good manners are laughed at by a good number of Koreans and regarded as a sign of weakness or inferiority.

Example #1: I am walking towards a big glass door, Korean lass walking towards me looking somewhat scared. I, as I was brought up to do, swing the door open and let her pass. She seems to grin with an air of "yeah, that's right you hold the door open for me."

Example #2: While walking down the street and bumping shoulders with Koreans, I turn and say sorry (in Korean of course), to which they often grunt of smirk with an air of "yeah, that's right! You better be sorry"

Example #3: When the ajumma jumps in front of me at E-mart, in the elevator, on the subway, etc. etc. I just grin. They are oblivious. While I absolutely HATE when they rush the elevator, I do always allow it to happen by standing back a little when I see them getting ready to pounce. Am I just being weak in their eyes?

I suppose in the end, it is a bit of both. I am being paranoid, but then there also a good number of Koreans who get a superiority kick out of me being nice to them.

[coffeeman]

I've been here a year and a half and think I have figured out the Korean mind on this issue, well, maybe, some people claim that you can't figure these people out.

The lack of manners thing I think is just a carefree attitude or "f - it!" attitude, the kind of attitude you'd find in France, Italy and Spain. People are just rude to each other, but no one takes it personally. There's a certain feeling of liberation with being carefree, but coming from an anglo culture, it's hard to swallow this kind of way of living.

[Ya-ta Boy]

Personally, I think you are wrong in your first two examples. Not wrong in #3. That one you have to be more aggressive.

Assigning meaning to facial expressions is iffy, under the best of circumstances. Doing it across cultures, and with only a glimpse to go by...don't do it.

[HapKi]

The examples you described are polite by western standards. Koreans have different perceptions on politeness, or social correct order.

One of the first words many foreigners learn in Korean is "Shillae Hamnida," (excuse me), thinking that its catch-all usefullness in English somehow transfers into Korean. It doesn't.

As for what you are reading into their attitude- "they often grunt of smirk with an air of "yeah, that's right! You better be sorry" and "seems to grin with an air of "yeah, that's right you hold the door open for me." I really don't see where you are coming from. Do you think all Koreans bide their time waiting for a chance encounter with a foreigner just to put on this superiority play you describe? I doubt it.

[Dan The Chainsawman]

Excercise your good manners for the purpose of feeling good about yourself rather than expecting some sort of quid pro pro at a later date from a random passing stranger. Much easier not to be dissappointed that way.

[coffeeman]

Actually.... with reference to my earlier post, I'd like to add that Koreans have this "carefree" attitude with strangers but not with people they know. With people they know, they have this rigid hierarchical and complicated system of manners. For example, you never, never hand a cup or pour something into a glass using your left hand. Sounds childish, but that's just the way it is. "What? Is my left hand no good?" Maybe Koreans become rude after they leave their workplace or in-laws home 'cause this part of their culture pisses them off. But, will they ever evolve into something more progressive and in line with the times? Oh, nooooo!

[RACETRAITOR]

In their defence, they probably think you're not so well mannered either.

From what I understand, holding the door open for a girl here is a bit more forward than in our countries, more like a wink or whistling as they pass. Same thing if you offer a girl your seat.

And you didn't know that people here are less apologetic about bumping into each other? They have less personal space in this country. How are you not aware of this?

These are simple ettiquite things you should learn before you come to the country. How did it slip you by?

[Newbie]

[Newbie]

[RACETRAITOR]

So are you asking if it's a sign of weakness that you're adhering to your old manners rather than adapting to new ones? It's a sign you're not very good at adapting to new circumstances, at least. It also sounds like you weren't so polite at home either.

[lastat06513]

Don't worry, Newbie, we all have "those months", sometimes it lasts for a while.

Koreans tend to be rude in nature, especially in Seoul.
But I have come to think of it this way; The rudest person in Seoul is equivalant to the nicest person in New York City.

When I was in Korea, I would do the same as you did (most of the time, at least) and yeah, they smirked some. But I got the feel that the grin is not in a rude way.

#1- You spoke Korean to them. Most foreigners don't even attempt this and Koreans feel alittle at ease when they hear someone not from the country speaking their language (kinda' like when a person says "excuse me" in English).

#2- You used common courtesy and manners, which is something alot of them don't display not to mention see on an everyday basis.

You'll be ok. I was there for 5 and half years and although I had my bad moments, it was a good experience overall.

Give yourself alittle more time.

[cheem]

Example 1: IMHO you can never go wrong by holding a door open for another person here. It will enhance the quaint aura of your "foreigness".

Example 2: IMHO again, you should refrain from apologizing for all but the most severe bumps. Apologizing for little bumps will probably confuse most Koreans.

Example 3: No, you aren't being weak in their eyes since as you said yourself, they're oblivious. You'll also notice that in this situation most Koreans defer as well. In fact, it seems that foreigners are far more likely to assert their first-come-first-serve rights here.

[itaewonguy]

you are a little paranoid

[Newbie]

[Newbie]