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High school vs. University. I've done both
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bourquetheman



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:41 am    Post subject: Good post BBE.. Reply with quote

I was just the opposite of you BBE as I went from 3 years teaching at university to wondering what it would be like to work at a high school. I must say that I enjoyed both jobs and find it hard to compare them. Sure the vacation time at the university was nice and the 3 day weekend every every week. There was an unwritten rule that if you worked one vacation (for extra pay of course) then you got the other one off. I left at just the right time as they had pretty much nullified that rule and were even doing a children's camp as well! Also the course moved from being a conversation class (which I enjoyed) to more of a writing/presentation class. The textbook that the "new" director (who was a real d!ck) was a 'science' book which had you getting the students to get there bunsen burners and beakers out to do experiments in English!
I and the rest of the staff made it known that there would be NO way that we would teach this book. The director countered with "Well we are the natural science campus" to which I said "Yes but WE are not SCIENCE teachers!". He saw my point and we reverted back but let's just say I'm glad I got out when I did.
As for high school I thought it was very refreshing and enjoyed it immensely. I had 4 weeks official vacation but like you said there is much more that is off the books as well. The staff was great and the school had a government grant and had a brand new office and classroom complete with a full electronic setup that was fantastic! I got paid extra for teaching after school if I wanted and my 22 pyong apartment was right behind the school. At university I had to pay 600 000 won a month for a 2 bedroom place in the family housing section and the area around the university, while nice really blew as far as entertainment went.
What's funny is that people I talked with and who asked me where I'd worked before thought I was crazy for leaving a uni job but to be honest I had no regrets at all. I did 2 years at the highschool and now am at a company job and I probably can say that I enjoy this the most so far. Anyway it's nice to see someone else appreciates high school jobs. I had a good time at both uni and high school and I won't take anything away from either.
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BigBlackEquus



Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenny:

The uni job is more attractive because I have this belief that it will be useful in my future. It looks better on a resume. If I want to apply for a really good job elsewhere someday, be it here or another country, having two years at a high school and at least a year or more at a uni job sounds better than 4 years at a high school. That's my opinion, anyway.

Based on that, I'd stick with the current uni job, but I would have opted for my own apartment.

The jury is still out though. I had two years to find things I didn't like about that high school job, and there weren't many things I disliked! I would not have bothered to apply for another job had I been promised everything early. They tried to screw with the contract after being warned I would walk, and I stayed true to my word.

I'm still really new into this uni job, so anything could happen. Three months from now, I might feel this was the greatest thing ever. Or I could say it has been awful. I'm guessing I'll be somewhere in between.

If the resume didn't matter, and I didn't have to worry about Kyonngi screwing things up... honestly... I'd rather be at the high school. It was just a whole lot more fun.

That, however, is not the current reality. I am where I am, and I am making the best of it. I do enjoy working here so far, when I ignore a few typical Korean administrational issues.
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jinju



Joined: 22 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemonade wrote:
Kimchieluver wrote:
I'm with EPIK and teach middle school. I have turned down two uni gigs because of the pay cut. The vacation offered was 12 weeks at both. They had a private pension plan. They didn't want to pay anything for housing. It was not negotiable. The jobs were mine, but if I didn't want to accept their terms, they had 40 other teachers more/less qualified than me to take my place (I was recommended by friends).

I love teaching at middle school. My students like me (most of them) and I get respect. The teachers respect me and I am one of them. I go for lunches with them on weekends. Get sloshed the occasional time with some of them.

Would I take a Uni job? Yes, but the ones that I would take are almost all but extinct.

What can I say? I love my job.


"Extinct?" What do you mean "extinct?" Try 12 teaching hours per week, above average pay, severence, OT, 5 months vacation per year, your own large office in a new building, visa run paid, decent new housing and students who tell you they love you all the time. "Extinct," I don't think so. No offence.



I wouldnt take a univesity job. I wouldnt take your job.

Try:

2.7 m a month
brand new officetel in a great location
effectively about 2-2.5 months off for vacations
teaching about 15 hours a week.
My own office as well.
Absolutely no grading or paperwork of any kind.
No crap from middle management, no politics, no b.s.

The ONLY thing your job has on mine is that you have less office hours. Whoopee.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Real Reality wrote:
BigBlackEquus wrote:
Negotiating with Koreans (in English teaching --
I just want to tell it like it is. Uni jobs involve more work for the same money, if you want to do it right. You may or may not like that. I enjoy where I'm at now. It's just a different kind of enjoyment which may or may not be something people should bother to strive for.


Exactly. I wish Homer and some others would accept this information.

]



Homer doesn't work at a university. And if you were referring to me, since my viewpoint is very close to Mr. Homer's, neither do I.

Better luck next time.
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It says quite a lot about how Koreans shoot themselves in the foot all the time.


Quote:
Thailand is
such a refreshingly liberal country compared to the
f*ck*d up sh*thole of Korea or even the anally
retentive nature of Japan.


Actually, it says a lot more about your friend's attitude than anything.
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Lemonade



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jinju wrote:
Lemonade wrote:
Kimchieluver wrote:
I'm with EPIK and teach middle school. I have turned down two uni gigs because of the pay cut. The vacation offered was 12 weeks at both. They had a private pension plan. They didn't want to pay anything for housing. It was not negotiable. The jobs were mine, but if I didn't want to accept their terms, they had 40 other teachers more/less qualified than me to take my place (I was recommended by friends).

I love teaching at middle school. My students like me (most of them) and I get respect. The teachers respect me and I am one of them. I go for lunches with them on weekends. Get sloshed the occasional time with some of them.

Would I take a Uni job? Yes, but the ones that I would take are almost all but extinct.

What can I say? I love my job.


"Extinct?" What do you mean "extinct?" Try 12 teaching hours per week, above average pay, severence, OT, 5 months vacation per year, your own large office in a new building, visa run paid, decent new housing and students who tell you they love you all the time. "Extinct," I don't think so. No offence.



I wouldnt take a univesity job. I wouldnt take your job.

Try:

2.7 m a month
brand new officetel in a great location
effectively about 2-2.5 months off for vacations
teaching about 15 hours a week.
My own office as well.
Absolutely no grading or paperwork of any kind.
No crap from middle management, no politics, no b.s.

The ONLY thing your job has on mine is that you have less office hours. Whoopee.


Some people don't read very carefully. I get over twice the vacation time you get and I work less hours than you do. Who told you I have to deal with "middle management?" I report directly to the Dean of my department. My officetel is VERY new. We make close to the same wages. I never mentioned a word about office hours - I decide those on an as needed basis.

I find it hard to believe that you don't have "politics" where you work. Moreover, how on earth do you get away without grading or paperwork of any kind? Are you REALLY teaching?
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Mr. Pink



Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBE I know what you mean about being a "superstar" at high school. I think when you teach anywhere from elementary to high school age students that effect will happen in Korea. At least it has to me anyways. When I taught elementary age children I really felt overwhelmed by how much they love their foreign teacher. Being in a high school setting the past few years, they are a little more reserved than children, but I still get kids running down the hall to say hi, or coming to see me in the office just cause I am there.

From everyone I've talked to who works in a university setting, these things don't happen often.

Also you might add another plus to high school vs. university: In a university you have your own office, which really isn't a positive thing unless you are an introvert, as your social life with other teachers sucks. In a high school where you all share the same office, you get to know your co-workers and build solid relationships. One reason I've said at the same job for so long is I really enjoy my relationship with my co-workers. They are excellent people.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I am concerned, satisfaction in the job is the name of the game. This has two key components: a) personal preference for teaching a certain age group and b) the quality of the management at a work place.
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SuperHero



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
As far as I am concerned, satisfaction in the job is the name of the game. This has two key components: a) personal preference for teaching a certain age group and b) the quality of the management at a work place.

I agree 100%
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kimchieluver wrote:
Yu Bum Suk

Well EPIK will say that you are teaching whatever level students you want, wherever you want, until your are almost finished orientation. Then they will stick you where ever they want. If you don't have an F2 you are literally screwed out of you airfare money. The pay is predetermined. I am Level one- the highest. I know a fellow with 11 years teaching experience (Ihave 4.5) and is level 2. Unless he gets a TESOL or TEFL certificate they wont bump him up to level one. Some supervisors just don't care about what the contract says. Most do, but some don't.

Some supervisors will insist you stay from 8:30 - 4:30 and come in on days when there are no classes. The whole "you are a civil servant thing", others don't. Some EPIKers never meet their supervisors. Many just deal with the Vice- Principle and only have to work with him/her. Some (like me) meet all sorts of education officials.

Anyways, I love my job. No complaints here, but I can tell you a lot of my friends are not renewing. Some because of EPIK, some because of Korea and some because of the small towns they got stuck in two to three hours from where they were told they would be teaching.


My friend got level 1 but he had to fight for it and threaten to turn around and go home. He has a two-year MA in applied linguistics. They wanted to give him the same level 2 pay rate they offered me and my MA is in history and my teaching experience less than one year at that point.
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BigBlackEquus



Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Pink wrote:

Also you might add another plus to high school vs. university: In a university you have your own office, which really isn't a positive thing unless you are an introvert, as your social life with other teachers sucks. In a high school where you all share the same office, you get to know your co-workers and build solid relationships. One reason I've said at the same job for so long is I really enjoy my relationship with my co-workers. They are excellent people.


Ah, the office. I didn't touch on that.

My uni office is almost bigger than my apartment. Actually, I think it is! No kidding! It's not hard, since my apartment is barely 10 pyong. And I've got this big, empty echo-chamber office all to myself. Snooooooze. At the high school, I shared a mass office (typical HS setting) with about 25 or 30 teachers. The uni office is pretty darned boring, by comparision. I get more work done there, though. Oh, it's on the 6th floor, and there is NO elevator. The bright side is that I'm losing weight. The dark side is that I often have to take several trips up and down the stairs between classes to get different books, electronics, etc. I wear a suit to work every day. It's gonna be a hot summer going up and down those stairs!

Oh, and they did provide me with a brand-spankin' new Samsung Intel P4 2.8 computer and 17" LCD. At the high school, I had a 133 mhz Intel with windows 95 and a sticker that said, "Year 2000 compliant" on it. Laughing I swear!

I spent the first hour at my uni trying to figure out how to remove the horrid Samsung OS-imbedded software that includes a copy of Ahn Labs Anti-Virus that WILL NOT go away. It's part of the OS. If you delete it, it automatically reinstalls when you reboot. You can wipe off every file in the directory, clear it off of the list of Windows startup programs -- it still comes back every time. I'm sure there is a way around it in Korean, but I've tried everything.

I ended up using Windows Defender to block it from loading entirely.

Ahn Labs is a horribly worthless program which asks you to enter your Korean ID number and pay money before it will clean off a virus.

It is enough to keep me from EVER buying a new Samsung computer!
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adventureman



Joined: 18 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just another pissing contest..
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BigBlackEquus



Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a pissing contest. There is really only one person on here trying to make waves and be a troll, for the most part.
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Paji eh Wong



Joined: 03 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to be that the cardinal sin of teaching English and robbing banks is getting comfortable. Its like that movie "Heat". Any time you feel that heat coming from around the corner, i.e. your negotiating position deteriorates, you have to be able to walk.

It seems like EFL teachers in Korea are feeling a lot of heat. But maybe that's just me.
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