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Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: Venezuela Vows to Blow Up Oil Fields if Attacked: Chavez |
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Venezuela president says he'd blow up oilfields if U.S. attacked
Canadian Press
Published: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 Article tools
ASUNCION, Paraguay -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez warned Wednesday his government would blow up its own oilfields if the United States ever were to attack -- the latest in a series of warnings against Washington. U.S. officials have repeatedly denied any military plans against Chavez but also have called him a threat to stability in the region. Speaking with other South American leaders, Chavez said his conflict with the United States is rooted in Washington's thirst for oil.
If the United States were to attack, Chavez said: "We'll do like the Iraqis. We won't have any other alternative -- blow up our own oilfields but they aren't going to take that oil.'' Chavez, however, cited what he called a regular flow of threatening statements and actions from the U.S. government -- from naval exercises behind held this month in the Caribbean to U.S. complaints about Venezuela's deepening ties with Iran.
Chavez rattled off a list of insults he said the United States is trying to pin on him: "tyrant, dictator, abuser of human rights, there is no freedom of expression in Venezuela.'' "The real reason for the open conflict...is energy,'' Chavez said. "They will never admit that because, of course, they're looking for other excuses.'' Venezuela is the world's fifth-largest oil exporter and remains a major supplier of oil to the United States.
Chavez called U.S. Ambassador William Brownfield, whom he recently threatened to expel, "a constant provocation'' and accused Washington of stirring up suspicions about his country's relations with Iran. "The latest they've invented is that we're sending uranium to Iran and what's more, yesterday, it came out in the Venezuela press that we're making a secret plan to bring Iranian nuclear missiles and install them in Venezuela,'' he said.
The Venezuelan newspaper 2001 published that report Tuesday, citing unidentified U.S. intelligence sources saying Iran and Venezuela had made a secret deal to ship missiles to Venezuela and Cuba aboard oil tankers. It did not provide any details about its sources and the report was roundly denied by Venezuelan officials as preposterous.
Chavez said the United States seems to be "searching for an excuse for anything'' against Venezuela, noting U.S. warships are holding naval exercises this month in the Caribbean -- "there under our very noses.'' In Caracas, meanwhile, Venezuelan Defence Minister Admiral Orlando Maniglia said the military plans to hold its own exercises soon along its coasts and with neighbouring countries' armed forces. "We have the same sort of exercises,'' Maniglia said.
"We already have planned some future exercises with the government of Curacao and also with the Dutch, with the navy and armed forces of Colombia...with the Brazilians.'' The dates of the training were unclear but the defence minister suggested Venezuela's military is planning air and naval exercises along its coast in the short-term.
© Canadian Press 2006 |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:44 am Post subject: |
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I've been watching Venezuela and Chavez with fascination for a long time now. So far I'm amazed and delighted that the US have thus far been unable to do the same to Venezuela as they did to Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, the newly democratic Iran of the 50s, etc. But I always have an uneasy feeling that something is around the corner....how long can the people of Venezuala possibly get away with using their natural resources to benefit themselves rather than a small Venezualan elite and the world's most powerful country?
....and the other day I spotted this:
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HERE COME THE MARINES AND MAYBE A LITTLE "SHOCK AND AWE"
Want more evidence about what may be in the works. It's come to light that the US has plans called "Operation Bilbao" that look like, walk like and make sounds like a plan to forcibly overthrow the Chavez government. Want more? I briefly mentioned an ongoing close by US military exercise above. The US Navy sent an aircraft carrier strike group of four ships, 60 aircraft and 6,500 marines to the Caribbean and South American waters for a "major" training exercise. It's holding it now about 50 kilometers from Venezuelan territory (about 30 miles). All four ships are capable of launching cruise missiles that may be armed with nuclear warheads. I told Mr. X this is a deliberately provocative and hostile act and to imagine the reaction here if China or Russia were doing this 30 miles off the California coast. I added I could include more examples of how the US is stepping up its efforts against Hugo Chavez but hoped what I detailed above was enough. I also explained that I hope I've provided enough documnted proof that once again the US government is improperly and illegally acting to subvert a foreign leader and his government and, in this case, doing it to a twice democratically elected leader loved by the great majority of his people. |
Full article: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=10113
Democracy and self-determination for the Venezuelans may soon be a thing of the past��.though I certainly hope not. |
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Tiger Beer

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:08 am Post subject: |
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I took the article more as a propoganda campaign to snowball the Venezuelan people.
The U.S. will not be attacking Venezuela for its oil fields.. thats just Chavez propoganda kicked into overdrive. |
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Yo!Chingo

Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: Seoul Korea
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Venezuela has nothing we would want except oil and we've got plenty of other sources for that! Chavez has a Napoleon complex and a big mouth. It's a piss Ant country that no one even cares about and they're screaming bloody murder.
I believe he'll get what's coming too him but not at the hands of the USA. It'll be his own people that bring him down...eventually that is. |
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Yo!Chingo

Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: Seoul Korea
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Venezuela has nothing we would want except oil and we've got plenty of other sources for that! Chavez has a Napoleon complex and a big mouth. It's a piss Ant country that no one even cares about and they're screaming bloody murder.
I believe he'll get what's coming too him but not at the hands of the USA. It'll be his own people that bring him down...eventually that is. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Venezuela is to the US : Korea is to Japan (concerning Dok-do)
So far, Chavez is talking big because it sounds good at home, but he is still selling oil to the US. IOW, he's having it both ways. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: |
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Yo!Chingo wrote: |
Venezuela has nothing we would want except oil and we've got plenty of other sources for that! Chavez has a Napoleon complex and a big mouth. It's a piss Ant country that no one even cares about and they're screaming bloody murder.
I believe he'll get what's coming too him but not at the hands of the USA. It'll be his own people that bring him down...eventually that is. |
The US depends on Venezuela for one sixth of its oil - especially in these days of unrest in the Middle East - and Venezuela is the US's third biggest source of oil.
Chavez has been trying to change a 60-year-old agreement with foreign oil companies that charges them as little as one percent in royalties, while handing out enormous tax breaks. This is pissing the US government off. It's a major source of revenue for multinationals like ExxonMobil and Phillips Petroleum.
But that's not why the US is working to overthrow Chavez. A truly democratic Venezuala is like a cancer threatening the rest of Latin America. These cancers have reared their heads before, just to be sliced out of existence by US trained and bankrolled death squads. Think Nigeragua, Elsalvador, Guatamala, Chile. You see, if these popular democracies are allowed to fester and succeed in their attempts to bring the natural wealth and resources of a nation back into the hands of its own people, corporate America loses out on bargain basement natural resources and slavewaged labour forces. And if you let one country get away with it....they'll all be at it! This MUST NOT be allowed to happen. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Yo!Chingo wrote: |
It'll be his own people that bring him down...eventually that is. |
Probably. That's what usually happens. The US bankrolls a corrupt elite and provides training and weaponry for their death squads. These squads butcher, rape, mutilate a terrified population into submission while the US lauds them as 'freedom fighters.' Then after a while 'sense prevails' and the underclasses give up their dreams of a better society and life for their offspring. It's a well established pattern in the Americas. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:52 am Post subject: |
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Crazy unsophisticated leader of an economy dependent on oil, subscribes to an outdated belief system, uses a phantom war threat to consolidate his tenuous grip on power and get sweeping new powers. Chavez or Bush? At least Chavez has only alienated one ally (the USA) and made new ones (Cuba). The USA has lost almost all its allies and made none. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: Operation Bilbao |
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Dark clouds are gathering. There's a lot of talk of Operation Bilbao these days. Are the US going to make a 4th attempt to oust Chavez? There are certainly some onimous signs.
The New Statesman wrote: |
In reclaiming the honour of our craft, not to mention the truth, we journalists at least need to understand the historic task to which we are assigned - that is, to report the rest of humanity in terms of its usefulness, or otherwise, to "us", and to soften up the public for rapacious attacks on countries that are no threat to us. We soften them up by dehumanising them, by writing about "regime change" in Iran as if that country were an abstraction, not a human society. Hugo Chavez's Venezuela is currently being softened up on both sides of the Atlantic. A few weeks ago, Channel 4 News carried a major item that might have been broadcast by the US State Department. The reporter, Jonathan Rugman, the programme's Washington correspondent, presented Chavez as a cartoon character, a sinister buffoon whose folksy Latin ways disguised a man "in danger of joining a rogues' gallery of dictators and despots - Washington's latest Latin nightmare". In contrast, Condoleezza Rice was given gravitas and Donald Rumsfeld was allowed to compare Chavez to Hitler.
Indeed, almost everything in this travesty of journalism was viewed from Washington, and only fragments of it from the barrios of Venezuela, where Chavez enjoys 80 per cent popularity. That he had won nine democratic elections and referendums - a world record - was omitted. In crude Soviet flick style, he was shown with the likes of Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi, though these brief encounters had to do with Opec and oil only. According to Rugman, Venezuela under Chavez is helping Iran develop nuclear weapons. No evidence was given for this absurdity. People watching would have no idea that Venezuela was the only oil-producing country in the world to use its oil revenue for the benefit of poor people. They would have no idea of spectacular developments in health, education, literacy; no idea that Venezuela has no political jails - unlike the United States.
So if the Bush administration moves to implement "Operation Bilbao", a contingency plan to overthrow the democratic government of Venezuela, who will care, because who will know? For we shall have only the media version; another demon will get what is coming to him. The poor of Venezuela, like the poor of Nicaragua, and the poor of Vietnam and countless other faraway places, whose dreams and lives are of no interest, will be invisible in their grief: a triumph of censorship by journalism.
For full article: http://www.newstatesman.com/200604240013
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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mindmetoo wrote: |
Crazy unsophisticated leader of an economy dependent on oil, subscribes to an outdated belief system, uses a phantom war threat to consolidate his tenuous grip on power and get sweeping new powers. Chavez or Bush? At least Chavez has only alienated one ally (the USA) and made new ones (Cuba). The USA has lost almost all its allies and made none. |
And further more:
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He has not bombed, invaded or pillaged another country or threatened to do so.
He has not been holding hundreds of detainees without trial for over four years.
He is not orchestrating torture through ��rendition�� or by any other means.
He does not deny global warming and the need to address it.
He is not the inept, ignorant and inarticulate figurehead of unelected corporations which profit from invasions and occupations and steal ��reconstruction�� money and contracts.
He has not won two elections through fraudulent means.
He is not a religious fundamentalist.
http://www.globalwomenstrike.net/English2006/LetterToCh4News.htm |
Now kiddies, is that last description of Chavez or Bush?  |
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Big_Bird wrote: |
Yo!Chingo wrote: |
Venezuela has nothing we would want except oil and we've got plenty of other sources for that! Chavez has a Napoleon complex and a big mouth. It's a piss Ant country that no one even cares about and they're screaming bloody murder.
I believe he'll get what's coming too him but not at the hands of the USA. It'll be his own people that bring him down...eventually that is. |
The US depends on Venezuela for one sixth of its oil - especially in these days of unrest in the Middle East - and Venezuela is the US's third biggest source of oil.
Chavez has been trying to change a 60-year-old agreement with foreign oil companies that charges them as little as one percent in royalties, while handing out enormous tax breaks. This is pissing the US government off. It's a major source of revenue for multinationals like ExxonMobil and Phillips Petroleum.
But that's not why the US is working to overthrow Chavez. A truly democratic Venezuala is like a cancer threatening the rest of Latin America. These cancers have reared their heads before, just to be sliced out of existence by US trained and bankrolled death squads. Think Nigeragua, Elsalvador, Guatamala, Chile. You see, if these popular democracies are allowed to fester and succeed in their attempts to bring the natural wealth and resources of a nation back into the hands of its own people, corporate America loses out on bargain basement natural resources and slavewaged labour forces. And if you let one country get away with it....they'll all be at it! This MUST NOT be allowed to happen. |
How do you figure that venzuela is the 3rd largest supplier for oil if they only supply 1/6th of it? 2005 Stats showed that Canada as biggest supplier then Mexico then Nigeria (tied with) Saudi Arabia.
So at best that would put them in the 5th or 4th place.
http://www.gravmag.com/oilimports05.jpg
Since Venezuela depends 44% on the US market I think Chavez should shut the *beep* up. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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For those of you (and there seem to be many) who are unaware of what a serious threat Chavez is to the world as we know it, have a little read down this list. Warning: the following is not for the faint hearted. Some of the more shocking and heineous of his crimes are: free health care, wiping out illiteracy and food subsidies for mothers and pregnant woman. This man is a monster!
1. Chavez uses Venezuela��s large oil revenue to tackle the poverty of 80% of the Venezuelan population. This is a complete break with his predecessors, the Venezuelan elite and its international (mainly US) friends who enriched themselves at the expense of most Venezuelans.
2. He extends the benefits of the oil revenue to other countries in the region, providing oil at a 40% reduction payable with food and services by those who can��t afford to pay cash. Even low income people in the US have benefited: Hurricane Katrina victims and others receive cheap heating fuel from Venezuela��s US subsidiary, Citgo.
3. He has worked with Cuba on literacy and health programmes which in less than two years have succeeded in eliminating illiteracy in Venezuela, and are providing free health care for all. These programmes are now being used in other countries such as Bolivia whose governments are also intent on eliminating poverty. (But then Evo Morales, the newly elected president of Bolivia was dismissed by Rugman as a ��Chavez protege;��.)
4. He is redistributing idle land to those willing to work it, restarting agricultural production which was killed decades ago by the oil boom, in order to achieve food security for the Venezuelan population who depended on imports for 65% of its staple foods.
5. He publicly challenges attempts by the US administration – that great exporter of democracy – to bring his government down, and there have been a number, including: the April 2002 coup, defeated when millions of people, starting with women, took to the streets to demand Chavez��s return and most of the army remained loyal to the constitution; and the oil sabotage of 2002-3 which was run from the CIA offices in Caracas. There have also been assassination attempts and calls by those close to the Bush administration for his assassination (the latest was Pat Robertson). A number of those involved in the 2002 coup are now living in Miami.
6. He speaks out against the war and invasion of Afghanistan, Haiti and Iraq.
7. He has won eight elections and a presidential referendum since 1998, each time increasing his majority.
8. He can count on over 70% support according to the latest polls and is the most popular head of state in the Western hemisphere, probably in the world.
9. He acknowledges the enormous contribution of women��s unwaged caring work to society, the economy and the revolution, and has called for implementation of Article 88 of the constitution which entitles housewives to social security. In February he announced that some of the oil revenue would go to women whose hard work deserves recognition: from June the poorest housewives will receive $160 a month. About 500,000 women are expected to get this money. Article 14 of the Land Act prioritises woman-headed households for land distribution and for food subsidies for pregnant women and new mothers and their infants. In March the Women��s Development Bank celebrated its fifth anniversary: thousands of poor families have benefited from its subsidised micro-credit.
10. He promotes anti-racism and the rights of Indigenous people who have suffered most from over 500 years of first European then US imperialism, and are now entitled to resources including ancestral land, bilingual education and other recognition of their cultural autonomy.
11. He has stated more than once that the market cannot be allowed to be in charge of us because it will destroy the world, and that life is too precious to be left in the hands of such an unregulated force. He talks about ��eliminating poverty by giving power to the poor�� and ��creating a caring economy, an economy at the service of human beings, not human beings at the service of the economy��.
12. Most importantly, he plans for the involvement of the entire population most of whom are actively engaged with the revolution, especially women. He promotes direct democracy rather than representative democracy so that those elected cannot ignore the electorate and do as they please as soon as they are voted in. The poorest sectors of the population have been running the anti-poverty and health programmes; they are determined to do everything in their power to defend what they have won so far and to prevent any kind of intervention.
The list is much longer. But popularity when it is deserved earns not the respect of so-called democrats but cries of ��populism�� and ��demagogy��. It is wrong for Chavez to ��buy�� populations by funding anti-poverty reforms but perfectly OK for Bush to buy whole governments with corrupt deals and arms sales.
http://www.globalwomenstrike.net/English2006/LetterToCh4News.htm |
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Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Wrench wrote: |
How do you figure that venzuela is the 3rd largest supplier for oil if they only supply 1/6th of it? 2005 Stats showed that Canada as biggest supplier then Mexico then Nigeria (tied with) Saudi Arabia.
So at best that would put them in the 5th or 4th place.
http://www.gravmag.com/oilimports05.jpg
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You are right, I was mistaken. I did a quick search on the internet and got plenty of evidence that Venezuela supplies about 1/6 of US oil. Then I saw it stated that Venezuela was the 3rd biggest supplier of oil. This may have been a typo. I didn't question it (as I should have) for 2 reasons: a) I know that Venezuela is the fifth largest oil exporter in the world - so it didn't seem unreasonable, and b) I also knew that at the end of last year Venezuela was the 4th biggest supplier to the US.
That's a good lesson to me to double check stats (something I usually do, as I'm always mindful that there are plenty of posters always ready to pounce on any mistake).
Wrench wrote: |
How do you figure that venzuela is the 3rd largest supplier for oil if they only supply 1/6th of it? |
How do you figure that that is mathematically unreasonable? Imagine country Y imported 2/6 of it. And country X imported 3/12 of it. Country V imported 1/6 of it. Countries P, Q, R, S T, and U imported the other 3/12 of it. Then country V (who imported 1/6) would be the 3rd biggest supplier - No? |
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