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Question regarding contracts
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Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject:

Grotto wrote:

How typically gord...innuendo without any meat to it....pathetically same MO you've had for years.

If you say so. You got me. Just like I didn't design any Motorola Razr sequels and didn't do whatever else you credit me as not doing. If not for people doing things for me, I would never get anything done. I am a failure in life.

Quote:

Deduction/withholding its the same damn thing.

No.

Quote:

So now you're privy to the inside information from the labour board Rolling Eyes

Have you ever thought of NOT lying?

Up until you claimed victory on the forum here, other posters who had made appeals to labour board on the issue had met with failure. I don't claim inside information as I worked at Immigration, not the Labour Board.

Quote:

No I said I knew of several cases...you really shouldn't twist someones words into something they are not! After I had successfully argued my case I passed the message on to other GEPIK members and they also got the deposit clause removed/voided!

Back the train up. I asked if you had several conversations as that is what you were claiming. Now here we are, several posts later and now you suddenly remember that you were talking about a collective that none of us have any knowledge about? And you say this in the same post where you question my credibility over such claims despite my much more reliable track record?

Quote:

Why dont you just open up your game store again, after all that turned out so well Laughing

Difficulty in getting sizable profits on games coupled with increased competition and fewer product returns to distributers means that any independant game store is unlikely to survive in today's marketplace. Though the PC room does quite well. Though the first store did quite well.

Quote:

Or better yet...retire on your investments....after all they are making 50% right Rolling Eyes

Keep tooting your horn...after all no one else will do it for you!

My PC room cost me $190,000 thus far. Where do you think that money came from? Selling pie? Plus I had to buy a $220,000 townhouse to show economic stability so to get funding to build two more this summer.

Quote:

Kind of funny how you scoff at my insults yet your lies just keep rolling along! You seem to have a pathological need for attention gord...seek help...really!! Seek help Laughing

Mom?

Grotto

Joined: 21 Mar 2004

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:38 am Post subject:

Quote:

I mentioned my victory over the deposit question over a year ago. Other posters also came on Dave's and said that the labour board had backed them up as well. Apparently you dont read enough posts Rolling Eyes

Quote:

Your record is like you, cracked and broken...and it plays the same discordant noise it always did. I'm sorry that you have no knowledge about the GEPIK program...I assure you it exists! I guess your Rolling Eyes

knowledge

isnt quite what you think it is Laughing

Quote:

Just like I didn't design any Motorola Razr sequels

Maybe you did, maybe you didnt. Fact is you said it yourself.....they dont acknowledge your existence Laughing

now I cant fault them on that can I? So .......we're supposed to take your word on something like that? With no facts to back it up whatsoever Rolling Eyes

Typical gord bullcrap Laughing

Quote:

Deduction/withholding its the same damn thing.

No.

Deduction: An amount that is or may be deducted: tax deductions.
Withholding: To deduct (withholding tax) from an employee's salary.

Sorry, but I have to school you yet again Cool

Do you ever know what you are talking about? Guess not Exclamation

Lie after lie.......its okay that you do this gord....it makes it so much easier to prove you wrong.

StAxX SOuL

Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: London

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:33 am Post subject:

Angelus wrote:

I guess there isn't a concrete answer to my question. Given the fact that the salary deduction clause does exist in several contracts, I'll lean towards its legality. From a business perspective, it would make sense that the various schools would insert that clause in order to protect themselves from instructors who decide to quit (without a legitmate reason) on short notice. *Assuming that the school is upholding their end of the contractual stipulations, I guess the instructor should honor his/her end as well. If the school in question is not honoring their contractual agreements, it should nullify that clause.

But it is not legal. One thing you must realise is that hagwons flaunt the law, simply because a large proportion choose to do so does not make it any more legal! Realise that it is a business and EFL teachers are prime targets for numerous reasons.

1. Inability to speak the language.
2. Knowledge of Korean labour law
3. Usual cost of seeking recourse, i.e. legal fees
4. Time available to seek recourse [once your E-2 Visa is no longer valid]

I can see why Gord is questioning the edited law which you posted up Grotto because it doesn't quite correspond with the Act. It appears that the ordering of the Act has simply changed as revisions have been made, and looks much like the postings of Rodney Panton were based on a pre 1998 incarnation of the Act.

To clear things up for anybody in doubt as to the legality of the said clauses following this thread's descent into mud-slinging, the applicable law can be referenced in Article 27 of the up to date Labor Standards Act available on the Ministry of Labor website.

Quote:

Article 27 (Prohbition of Predetermination of Nonobservance)

[center]An employer shall not enter into any contract by which a penalty or indemnity for possible damages incurred from nonobservance of a labor contract is predetermined.[/center]

Given that I'm only just getting my teeth sharpened on Korean labour law one question I'd like to ask you Grotto is what the situation is with the paid flights and the need for reimbursement should an employee leave a contract within the first 6 months? And as an extension to that, if the contract can be rendered null and void by the employer failing to adhere to the Labour Standards Act, would this remain an issue?

Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:54 am Post subject:

Grotto wrote:

That's lovely. Let's sit down and do a count, shall we?

Quote:

I don't deny you said that you knew of several cases, but that you said that two posts ago after you changed from having several conversations personally to having one and know of many other people who had it as well. When making things, stick to the party line and you won't get caught in such awkward situations as often.

Quote:

knowledge

isnt quite what you think it is Laughing

Now you are just distorting. When playing the distortion card, you have to space things out a bit more and not pull it in a thread that is all of two pages long where everyone can see your little dance number.

Cute that you cite me as having no book smarts when you tell people to commit tax fraud to save on their taxes.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=695943#695943

And you'll note that nearly all of your posts have gone from "it's the law!" to simply stating opinions because I've corrected you so many times. Shall I pull up the links where you claim "ten days vacation is the law" or "50 minute classes count as 60 because it's the law" or "airfare must be paid because it's the law" or "housing must be paid because it's the law" or "a release letter must be given because it's the law" and so on? I don't deny that you tell people what they want to hear, sadly it generally isn't correct.

Quote:

Maybe you did, maybe you didnt. Fact is you said it yourself.....they dont acknowledge your existence Laughing

now I cant fault them on that can I? So .......we're supposed to take your word on something like that? With no facts to back it up whatsoever Rolling Eyes

Typical gord bullcrap Laughing

I'm just curious what you would do if I post a picture of me with the prototype parts. Will you then claim it's a photoshop product or that I disassembled a number of $500 phones just to make you look silly?

Then for my next trick, I can pose with parts from a rather unique phone for Nokia that won't be coming out until October and then you can claim I sent myself a photoshopped picture from the future!

Quote:

Deduction: An amount that is or may be deducted: tax deductions.
Withholding: To deduct (withholding tax) from an employee's salary.

Sorry, but I have to school you yet again Cool

Do you ever know what you are talking about? Guess not Exclamation

Why do you cite one definition of the word? The first two definitions in my dictionary are:

1. To keep in check; restrain.
2. To refrain from giving, granting, or permitting. See Synonyms at keep.

I don't deny that "withholding" is often used under the definition you cite, but it's not the only meaning of the word which you have suggested.

Quote:

Lie after lie.......its okay that you do this gord....it makes it so much easier to prove you wrong.

You're saying I am lying, yet you don't back it up. You're simply nay-saying and tossing out grade-school insults. You just want to play the hero and tell people what they want to hear because when they learn everything you said is a lie they won't be around you. Rock on, Internet smart guy. Be the hero.

Though I wouldn't be so quick with the "you are lying" card given your history of spinning off stories like when you took a job once and your boss didn't have your apartment ready. You tell people to hold the line and not work, but that advice doesn't apply to you. Nope, you went and lived in his place then started posting about how your boss gave you a large house to live in. Beautiful times those were.

Grotto

Joined: 21 Mar 2004

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:08 am Post subject:

I'm finished with you gord....you are the one who distorts things....you twist everything someone says to fit your partial halftruths. Its been your pathetically sad MO for years.

As the the previous question.

Quote:

Article 26 (Violation of Working Conditions)
(1) When any of the working conditions as expressly set forth pursuant to Article 24 is found to be inconsistent with the actual working conditions, the worker concerned shall be entitled to claim damages on the ground of the breach of the working conditions, or may terminate the labor contract forthwith.
(2) When a worker intends to claim damages in accordance with paragraph (1), he may file a request with the Labor Relations Commission, and if a labor contract has been terminated, the employer concerned shall provide travel expenses for returning home to the worker who changes his residence for the purpose of taking up a new job.

If your employer lies to you and or violates the contract you can claim damages and they do have to provide airfare home for you....you would not have to repay any airfare if you got a judgement from the labour board.

poet13

Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject:

thank you Grotto and Gord! I was having a pretty crappy morning until i read your pissing contest.

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