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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Love my new name. You done Briar Patched my butt!!! |
Not any worse than you referring to the President as "dumbya," which is another sign of your extremist views. |
Your comments is ironic. I know you don't understand that. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
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Saddam wore sunglasses, and even laughed. Evidence of extreme politics. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:41 am Post subject: ... |
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Of course you don't have time to respond, Goph. That would involve you acknowledging the inaccuracies in your posting and/or, better yet, its pompous wiener-swinging level of in-your-face hypocrisy.  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| EFLTrainer wrote: |
| Fact: my stance on most issues is, in fact, relatively center. |
ROFL. Yet, that's not even our problem with you, the problem is that you are a screaming, chatboard hyena. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| EFLTrainer wrote: |
| Fact: my stance on most issues is, in fact, relatively center. |
ROFL. Yet, that's not even our problem with you, the problem is that you are a screaming, chatboard hyena. |
You've never seen me get excited on this chat board. I do love the complete lack of acceptance of other views/styles, though. You must be such a joy to know in real life. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:37 am Post subject: |
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I was going to respond point-by-point, but Nowhere Man pretty much blew gopher right out of the water. Per usual.
Gopher has lost any credibility he *thought* his treatises and *information* floods had bought him. He is an arrogant, ranting, hypocritical, ostrich-like ______.
So say I.
Have yourself some fun: pick a post - any post - of his and just respond to every point in it with, "Irrelevant." I did that and it's been six months of Thing2 and BLTtrainer. And this even though he has acknowledged more than once that our politics are pretty much in line with one another.
Kind of like lighter-skinned people looking down on darker-skinned people of the same ethnic group. Pretty much the pinnacle of stupid, don't you think?
Here's a little test for our burrow-digging buddy: What ARE my politics? You don't even know. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| BLT Trainer wrote: |
| What ARE my politics? You don't even know. |
I knew you weren't being satirical when you called the President "Dumbya," again and again.
The rest isn't hard to understand either. In the current scheme of things, you are an antiBush and antiWar extremist.
| BLT Trainer wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| (And I admit I'm being generous in my use of the word "humour" here) |
It's not meant to be funny, so no prob.  |
More evidence of the extremist nature of some of the posters on this board, by the way...
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=55880
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=55362 |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| BLT Trainer wrote: |
| What ARE my politics? You don't even know. |
I knew you weren't being satirical when you called the President "Dumbya," again and again.
The rest isn't hard to understand either. In the current scheme of things, you are an antiBush and antiWar extremist.
| BLT Trainer wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| (And I admit I'm being generous in my use of the word "humour" here) |
It's not meant to be funny, so no prob. |
More evidence of the extremist nature of some of the posters on this board, by the way...
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=55880
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=55362 |
Only Joo fails to answer questions as often as you do.
You are making yourself irrelevant. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| I knew you weren't being satirical when you called the President "Dumbya," again and again. |
Wrong. It's descriptive. And you know you hven't a clue about my politics, morality, ethics, etc.
You're a boy, still. You get angwy when day doesn't listen to yoo. Perhaps someday you will learn to listen to those who disagree with you. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| some people take things too personally on this board. The exchange of insults is getting quite tiresome. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| BLT Trainer wrote: |
| What ARE my politics? You don't even know. |
I knew you weren't being satirical when you called the President "Dumbya," again and again.
The rest isn't hard to understand either. In the current scheme of things, you are an antiBush and antiWar extremist.
| BLT Trainer wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| (And I admit I'm being generous in my use of the word "humour" here) |
It's not meant to be funny, so no prob. |
More evidence of the extremist nature of some of the posters on this board, by the way...
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=55880
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=55362 |
My father, an 87 year old working class veteran of WWII who voted for Nixon, Reagan and both Bushes, thinks this president and this war are completely wrong and idiotic. And he is quite angry and vociferous about it. I guess that makes him an extremist.  |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| My father, an 87 year old working class veteran of WWII who voted for Nixon, Reagan and both Bushes, thinks this president and this war are completely wrong and idiotic. And he is quite angry and vociferous about it. I guess that makes him an extremist. |
Not necessarily.
Your father's (why is it necessary to bring family members into this, by the way, making it so personal?) disagreeing with the current administration and its policies, even vociferously so, does not necessarily imply foaming at the mouth, calling the United States "evil," calling W. Bush or his cabinet "Nazis," referencing "a pox in the White House," screaming that "Rome is burning!", fantasizing that these elected and appointed officials might one day "burn in Hell" -- all of which express "hatred," oftentimes explicitly so, which is undeniably an extreme emotional response that goes well beyond reasonable disagreement, even harsh criticism and/or vociferous expression.
Take the other matter I referenced, for example, where it is suggested that a religion and its more fundamentalist followers ought to be "eradicated." This, too, is clearly extreme and not the same thing as disagreeing with something, even vociferously so. It implies violence and destruction, not simply speaking loudly and discordantly on any given problem -- and nearly 25% of respondents to the poll question on this board are at least willing to consider it, if they are not already all for it.
So extremism exists. The views I have referenced above are indeed extremist. And many on this posting board have indeed advocated and continue to advocate these views. The fact that fellow extremists or coreligionists take offense when I point this out in no way negates the truth of this -- I cannot help it if you and the others do not like looking in the mirror.
And, as Urban Myth comments much earlier in the thread, this is all sauce for the goose. It helps lay the seeds for political violence, to one degree or another -- and this includes your own liberal use of the term "fascism" in other threads, incidentally.
Whether or not your father is an extremist, then, depenends on other things that you have not told us about his views.
So, in any case, people need to bring their rhetoric under control, and not only on this board. That is my intent here: listen to what you are saying. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| desultude wrote: |
| My father, an 87 year old working class veteran of WWII who voted for Nixon, Reagan and both Bushes, thinks this president and this war are completely wrong and idiotic. And he is quite angry and vociferous about it. I guess that makes him an extremist. |
Not necessarily.
Your father's (why is it necessary to bring family members into this, by the way, making it so personal?) disagreeing with the current administration and its policies, even vociferously so, does not necessarily imply foaming at the mouth, calling the United States "evil," calling W. Bush or his cabinet "Nazis," referencing "a pox in the White House," screaming that "Rome is burning!", fantasizing that these elected and appointed officials might one day "burn in Hell" -- all of which express "hatred," oftentimes explicitly so, which is undeniably an extreme emotional response that goes well beyond reasonable disagreement, even harsh criticism and/or vociferous expression.
Take the other matter I referenced, for example, where it is suggested that a religion and its more fundamentalist followers ought to be "eradicated." This, too, is clearly extreme and not the same thing as disagreeing with something, even vociferously so. It implies violence and destruction, not simply speaking loudly and discordantly on any given problem -- and nearly 25% of respondents to the poll question on this board are at least willing to consider it, if they are not already all for it.
So extremism exists. The views I have referenced above are indeed extremist. And many on this posting board have indeed advocated and continue to advocate these views. The fact that fellow extremists or coreligionists take offense when I point this out in no way negates the truth of this -- I cannot help it if you and the others do not like looking in the mirror.
And, as Urban Myth comments much earlier in the thread, this is all sauce for the goose. It helps lay the seeds for political violence, to one degree or another -- and this includes your own liberal use of the term "fascism" in other threads, incidentally.
Whether or not your father is an extremist, then, depenends on other things that you have not told us about his views.
So, in any case, people need to bring their rhetoric under control, and not only on this board. That is my intent here: listen to what you are saying. |
My point is that you are lumping a lot of people together. Yes, there is some extremism in terms of rhetoric on both sides here on the board. I brought up my father because he is the best example of anyone I know who has become extremely angry and agitated by what is going on. The current situation in the U.S. is more polarizing than anything I have seen since VietNam- and it is not just the war in Iraq, it is also the whole war over religion and values issues. Getting silly children's books banned for their covert "message" is a perfect example.
You are being extremely reactive yourself. I NEVER called anyone a fascist. And, the one case in question aside, please demonstrate my "liberal use" of the term. I really dare you on that one. Others might, and maybe this annoys you, but, again, you are painting a lot of people with the same brush, and losing credibility in the process.
Oh, and I have been absolutely clear as glass on the issue of "eradicating" anyone of any religious persuasion, it is against everything I personally believe in and stand for. I find the fundamentalist Christians to be more than annoying (trying to reform public policy in their image is a good example of why) but, first, I distinguish fundamentalists from Christians in general, and second, I do with all of my soul believe in freedom of speech and belief. But, as they say, your freedom to swing your fist ends at my nose, and the fundamentalists are not respecting that.
You seem to have a ax to grind and are going after a lot of people with it- this is not really the best way to gain interest in your opinions. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the response, and rather than argue yet again -- in the trenches, and over apparently trivial details -- I'll just recognize that we basically agree on most things that you say above, esp. where you are annoyed by fundamentalist Christians, which I, too, share, and esp. where you point out that U.S. politics are polarizing (really, I would add, since the right-wing went after Clinton so viciously).
And if I mischaracterized your use of "fascism" you have my sincere apologies.
My opinion, on a broad range of threads, is simply that peoples' criticism of the U.S., W. Bush, the Iraqi affair, religious fundamentalists, and others, goes far beyond reasonable critique and, rather than exploring complexities, just goes after the simplisitc, politicized and very much partisan rant that oftentimes leaves no room for centrist or moderate political positions.
W. Bush's supporters and Conservative America, too, tend to go way beyond rationality and evince extremist politics.
Why is saying "I did not vote for W. Bush, do not agree with his political objectives and methods, have always disagreed with the Iraqi regime change, and look forward to (hopefully) a Democratic victory in 2008" not going far enough for people on this board? Why is it not sufficient for me to disagree with W. Bush; and why must I hate him to prove that I am a Democrat?
Whether you want to call that grinding an axe is not something I can easily influence, as, regretfully, I am finding that most people on this board are not influenced at all by information or analysis that contradicts their preexisting views and ideologies on a whole range of things. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Thanks for the response, and rather than argue yet again -- in the trenches, and over apparently trivial details -- I'll just recognize that we basically agree on most things that you say above, esp. where you are annoyed by fundamentalist Christians, which I, too, share, and esp. where you point out that U.S. politics are polarizing (really, I would add, since the right-wing went after Clinton so viciously).
And if I mischaracterized your use of "fascism" you have my sincere apologies.
My opinion, on a broad range of threads, is simply that peoples' criticism of the U.S., W. Bush, the Iraqi affair, religious fundamentalists, and others, goes far beyond reasonable critique and, rather than exploring complexities, just goes after the simplisitc, politicized and very much partisan rant that oftentimes leaves no room for centrist or moderate political positions.
W. Bush's supporters and Conservative America, too, tend to go way beyond rationality and evince extremist politics.
Why is saying "I did not vote for W. Bush, do not agree with his political objectives and methods, have always disagreed with the Iraqi regime change, and look forward to (hopefully) a Democratic victory in 2008" not going far enough for people on this board? Why is it not sufficient for me to disagree with W. Bush; and why must I hate him to prove that I am a Democrat?
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The problem, gopher, is that soon after this you will revert to your highly hypocritical habit of calling names (Thing I, Thing II, BLTtrainer), labeling (extremist) and misrepresentation (foaming at the mouth, inciting violence, calling for the murder of the Dumbya, etc) which will continue to derail your point. This of, course, is easy to do since you don't seem to have one. All of the above-listed actions by you have been against people with whom you essentially *share* ideologies. This is bizarre, to say the least.
You are making the basic mistake of this age: equating words with communication. Words are not communication. Words are, by some research findings, no more than 40 percent of communication.
But you are hung up on stats and words. You reject the idea that not knowing every fact on any given topic does not invalidate an opinion. This is partially due to you not seeming to understand or accept that some issues are *better* understood looking at the forest, some looking at the trees. The former approach is better suited to policy, the latter better suited to planning. (But these are not mutually exclusive processes.)
Above, you ignore the very obvious point the poster was making: This war, possibly this administration, are so bad that even those that would traditionally be in the GOP corner are mad as hell. Yet you, rather than seeing a highly relevant anecdote, dismiss this apparently fine American's response to this tragedy by saying it is nothing more than "making it personal." But you don't appear to mean it in the sense of it is relevant to us or that each American should be personally involved in the politics of the nation. No, you seem to mean that it was inappropriate in this discussion. How bizarre!
Why you do all of this has been speculated upon in the past. But to review: you don't like being told you are wrong. Your responses become quite ego driven, which is exceedingly ironic given your constant insults tossed at others for being rabid, out-of-control (fill-in-the-blanks.)
Again, you are doing all this to people who essentially agree with you on the issues, but necessarily with your analysis. What reaction would we see if your enemies told you you had your head up your rear? One can only imagine!!
It is up to you whether or not it is possible to have civil discourse with you, as you are the one who initiated, and has held fast to, the cycle of insults, etc.
| Gopher wrote: |
| Whether you want to call that grinding an axe is not something I can easily influence, as, regretfully, I am finding that most people on this board are not influenced at all by information or analysis that contradicts their preexisting views and ideologies on a whole range of things. |
| Quote: |
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC) |
Again, here, hypocrisy: Where have you changed YOUR mind? You have not. You go after others for not accepting your views or your analysis, but do not fault yourself for the same. When you are told your analysis is inaccurate or insufficient or irrelevant, you become petulant.
A good example is the issue of WMDs: It is absolutely irrelevant that they HAD existed, it is only relevant whether they DID exist at the time of the invasion, and clear that was to those who invaded Iraq. But you posted reams of info on what HAD been. You were told it irrelevant. You didn't like that. Etc., etc.
Physician, heal theyself. You used to be fun to debate. You have become tiresome because you remind me - and I am sure others - of Bush: smear your detractors!! Obscure the truth!!
Ball's in your court. |
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