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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: Has Iraq surpassed 9/11 in terms of US fatalities? |
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I don't know the exact number of people who died on 9/11, but I know it was far less than initial estimates, and I believe the final number was less than 2,500.
Total US deaths for the Iraq war now stand at 2,389 and total 'coalition' deaths stand at 2,599 - numbers that must be pretty close to 9/11. Of course this pales in comparison to Iraqis who have died, but nevertheless gives cause to wonder what the purpose of an invasion that was ostensibly launched to 'prevent' another 9/11 was. While I take very little pride in being a Canadian I must say that it's things like this that make me so damn happy not to be an American.
- Iraq had no WMD with which to terrorise others.
- The invasion and three years of occupation have produced no effective democracy whatsoever.
- Iraq's alledged connections to Al Qaeda have proven tenuous at best.
- The number of violent deaths per year in Iraq has been much higher than during Saddam's reign.
And now, on top of all this, far from preventing another 9/11 it has created one.
Who had benefited?
1. The oil industry (and this could backfire).
2. Israel (and this could backfire).
3. War profiteers (and they'll be laughing all the way to the bank regardless of what happens).
Three years ago around 80% of Americans were behind the invasion; I wonder how many of them will own up to it in another three years' time? While I feel very sorry for the other 20%, I have to say that on the whole America is really getting it's due. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Saddam Hussein killed 300,000 when he was in power during his 30 years. What was he going to do over the next 30 years?Remember Saddam would have killed even more were he not contained?His sons were coming up next and they were like him.
Saddam never gave up his war - did he?
Remember the US was attacked before the US invaded Iraq. The way the middle east was a strategic threat to the US. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Remember the US was attacked before the US invaded Iraq. The way the middle east was a strategic threat to the US. |
As opposed to today where the ME is still just as much a strategic threat to the US and also a tactical treat to 100,000+ Americans on the ground every single day. Bravo your mind! |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| so then let's hope that this incursion and the resulting civil war that seems to be teetering on the sides will remain under 300,000... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Remember the US was attacked before the US invaded Iraq. The way the middle east was a strategic threat to the US. |
As opposed to today where the ME is still just as much a strategic threat to the US and also a tactical treat to 100,000+ Americans on the ground every single day. Bravo your mind! |
If you force mideast states to kill supporters of Bin Laden then there would be no Al Qaeda. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
| so then let's hope that this incursion and the resulting civil war that seems to be teetering on the sides will remain under 300,000... |
A civil war would be avoided in those Shias and Kurds would just submit to the Bathists.
But it seems that the Kurds and the Shias don't want to do this. You fault them for it. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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But it seems that the Kurds and the Shias don't want to do this. You fault them for it. |
Sorry, who do I fault?
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| If you force mideast states to kill supporters of Bin Laden then there would be no Al Qaeda. |
I think it has been proven time and time again that nations LOVE being forced to do something by an outside power |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Remember the US was attacked before the US invaded Iraq. The way the middle east was a strategic threat to the US. |
As opposed to today where the ME is still just as much a strategic threat to the US and also a tactical treat to 100,000+ Americans on the ground every single day. Bravo your mind! |
If you force mideast states to kill supporters of Bin Laden then there would be no Al Qaeda. |
How about the American ideal of bringing them to trial  |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Total: 236. Excludes the 19 perpetrators. Approximately 2,738 United States citizens also died. |
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-American_casualties_of_the_September_11%2C_2001_Attacks"
I think this number is a little old and has been revised, but it's close enough for government work. I agree with the comment above that it is ridiculous to kill as much as 30x more people in retaliation for the deaths in an attack of any kind. Even more foolish to lose an equal number of dead yourself to keep 3000 more from dying.. And when you add in the nearly 20k that have been injured - and some significant percentage who are seriously maimed or disabled - does Iraq not come across as a gross overreaction??
Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Did anyone see that survey that something like 80% of US troops in Iraq believe they went there based on a lie about WMD. So you think "wow, some sanity in the ranks." But when asked why they're actually there fighting in Iraq, a similar number says they're there to get payback for 9/11.
Okay, Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 or very, very, very little. The 9/11 war is going on in Afghanistan. You know. Taliban. Bin Laden.
So it really amounts to the average GI believing if he kills a brown person, ANY brown person, that's payback for 9/11. It's race war.
WTF. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Remember the US was attacked before the US invaded Iraq. The way the middle east was a strategic threat to the US. |
As opposed to today where the ME is still just as much a strategic threat to the US and also a tactical treat to 100,000+ Americans on the ground every single day. Bravo your mind! |
If you force mideast states to kill supporters of Bin Laden then there would be no Al Qaeda. |
How about the American ideal of bringing them to trial |
This is a war . Legal means is not up to the challenge.
The US wasnt' even sure that they could convict Bin Laden when he was in the Sudan. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
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But it seems that the Kurds and the Shias don't want to do this. You fault them for it. |
Sorry, who do I fault?
| Quote: |
| If you force mideast states to kill supporters of Bin Laden then there would be no Al Qaeda. |
I think it has been proven time and time again that nations LOVE being forced to do something by an outside power |
But the US was attacked. If mideast regimes don't want to do it then hit them hard enough with whatever the US has to force them to do it. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
If mideast regimes don't want to do it then hit them hard enough with whatever the US has to force them to do it. |
And how does that make the man in the street listen to rational discourse and not want to pick up a weapon and kill Americans or blow up KFCs? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Did the man on the street get angry when Saddam gassed the Kurds? How about when Assad destroyed the city of Hama? How about when Khomeni killed 30,000 of his own citizens in 1988. Any demos when Bin Laden killed muslims?
Why not?
The real reason for terror is cause the regimes and the elites and the media and too many clerics teach hate for political reasons.
Here is left wing writer Robert Fisk writer I don't like him. But anyway.
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| As usual in the Arab world, everyone knew what was happening and no one said a thing. The British and American pilots flying the pointless southern "no-fly" zone �� allegedly to protect Iraq's minorities �� could clearly see the receding waters of the Marsh. The Arab regimes remained silent. Neither Mubarak nor Arafat nor Assad nor Fahd uttered the mildest word of criticism, any more than they did when the Kurds were gassed. |
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0519-02.htm |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
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| Total: 236. Excludes the 19 perpetrators. Approximately 2,738 United States citizens also died. |
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-American_casualties_of_the_September_11%2C_2001_Attacks"
I think this number is a little old and has been revised, but it's close enough for government work. I agree with the comment above that it is ridiculous to kill as much as 30x more people in retaliation for the deaths in an attack of any kind. Even more foolish to lose an equal number of dead yourself to keep 3000 more from dying.. And when you add in the nearly 20k that have been injured - and some significant percentage who are seriously maimed or disabled - does Iraq not come across as a gross overreaction??
Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. |
Well if those are the figures then, at the current rate, the US still has another three or four months to go before it's Iraq fatalities exceed those of 9/11. The point about the seriously injured is well taken. I suspect that the psychological damage to the veterans is probably going to take an even greater tolls in terms of suicides, divorce, domestic abuse, crime, etc. - cutting off one's nose to spite one's face indeed. But I'm sure that's neither here nor there to smug neo-cons. |
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