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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's more amazing that we're already past half a page of posts cheering on a drunk post calling for the eradication of the people of a religion.
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Well observed, Mith.
Out Of Context wrote:
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| I have the strong feeling that the "eradication" thing was intended as a tongue-in-cheek reference to the other thread and not a genuine wish to kill all Christians, and that what people are cheering on is the content of the OP and not the subject heading. |
Thanks for putting it, err, in context, Out Of Context.
On the other hand(heh heh), if a Christian yahoo starts a thread, and you don't like the thread and want it to disappear, the simple solution is to post nothing at all on the thread. In a day or two, the thread will be buried somewhere back in the archives and no one will pay it any attention.
Another solution is to post things on the thread that are totally unrelated to the OP, like recipes or song lyrics or something. Then, the thread stays near the top, so the OP gets the added humiliation of having the hostile reaction on public display for a period of time.
But anyone who responds to a Christian yahoo's thread has no one but himself to blame if that Christian yahoo doesn't "shut up". |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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I think it's more amazing that we're already past half a page of posts cheering on a drunk post calling for the eradication of the people of a religion.
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Well observed, Mith.
Out Of Context wrote:
| Quote: |
| I have the strong feeling that the "eradication" thing was intended as a tongue-in-cheek reference to the other thread and not a genuine wish to kill all Christians, and that what people are cheering on is the content of the OP and not the subject heading. |
Thanks for putting it, err, in context, Out Of Context.
On the other hand(heh heh), if a Christian yahoo starts a thread, and you don't like the thread and want it to disappear, the simple solution is to post nothing at all on the thread. In a day or two, the thread will be buried somewhere back in the archives and no one will pay it any attention.
Another solution is to post things on the thread that are totally unrelated to the OP, like recipes or song lyrics or something. Then, the thread stays near the top, so the OP gets the added humiliation of having the hostile reaction on public display for a period of time.
But anyone who responds to a Christian yahoo's thread has no one but himself to blame if that Christian yahoo doesn't "shut up". |
Amen to that, bro!  |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| I think it's more amazing that we're already past half a page of posts cheering on a drunk post calling for the eradication of the people of a religion. |
It's called joking. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| I think it's more amazing that we're already past half a page of posts cheering on a drunk post calling for the eradication of the people of a religion. |
It's called joking. |
Psst. I don't think we're allowed to do that here. |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Who supports the eradication of fundis-just to shut them |
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Today, religion is of "out of date"... its a dying trend. Getting unpopular. Go atheism.
But it does offer people a structure to their lives, which some people need if they have no other form of guidance. Or a strong will of their own... |
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Who supports the eradication of fundis-just to shut them |
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| Grotto wrote: |
Yadda yadda god this jesus that...shaddup already!
Is anyone else sick of their continious whining?
Go lay your guilt trip elsewhere....no ones buying into the lies anymore!
Religion is for the weak minded, the scared and the foolish. |
AMEN.  heheh
But I agree fucking religion is a plague. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Today, religion is of "out of date"... its a dying trend. Getting unpopular. Go atheism. |
No.
Number of Christians in the World
Number and Percentage of Christians by Region
Only in Europe is Christianity receding, and one can hardly call it a 'dying.' But since Europe is arguably slowly becoming less relevent, one should focus on the current 'Fourth Great Awakening' in America, and the rapid expansion of Christianity in Africa and Asia.
I'm not religious, but mark me down as anti-anti-Christian. The condescension against all the religious is unmerited, made more ironic by the fact that some of the anti-Christians suffer from the delusion that religion is on the wane.
| Desultude wrote: |
| Can you see yourself, in a class full of fellow students, in the U.S., proclaiming your atheism with the same resolve as claiming Christianity? |
Yes. But nevermind the fact that atheism is not supposed to be a positive value so much as a negative value. People don't go around proclaiming they don't believe in ghosts until someone suggests they believe in a ghost. However, the idea that atheists might be anything approaching persecuted in the US is laughable. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| why would any sane person physically (ie kill the practitioners) of religion or start an actual anti-religion crusade (I mean outside of educating people)? It's dying by itself, and an attack would probably just fuel it all over again. Some people disillusioned with Christianity have been converting to other religions trying to find whatever they are looking for (though the luckily most of the idiots are easily found by their new scientology ways) but in the end, Christianity will die out like everything else since the dawn of time. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Yes. But nevermind the fact that atheism is not supposed to be a positive value so much as a negative value. People don't go around proclaiming they don't believe in ghosts until someone suggests they believe in a ghost. However, the idea that atheists might be anything approaching persecuted in the US is laughable. |
Please don't put words in my mouth (a lot of that seems to happen on this board  ).
But, do you honestly believe that an open athiest could be elected to public office? As someone quoted Jon Stewart as saying, we have had nothing but Christians, avowedly, going to church every Sunday, Christians, ever for president. And only one Catholic, and that was a controversial big deal.
. If I were a kid in school, and I were an athiest, in today's environment in the U.S., I would keep my mouth shut. I might get accused of being one of those, you know, "God damned pinko commie athiests".
I think, quite sincerely, that anyone that doesn't think that the U.S. is agressively Christian is probably Christian and thus hasn't had to notice. I suspect Jews, Muslims, Hindus, athiests and others might have a different opinion. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Yes. But nevermind the fact that atheism is not supposed to be a positive value so much as a negative value. People don't go around proclaiming they don't believe in ghosts until someone suggests they believe in a ghost. However, the idea that atheists might be anything approaching persecuted in the US is laughable. |
Please don't put words in my mouth (a lot of that seems to happen on this board ).
But, do you honestly believe that an open athiest could be elected to public office? As someone quoted Jon Stewart as saying, we have had nothing but Christians, avowedly, going to church every Sunday, Christians, ever for president. And only one Catholic, and that was a controversial big deal.
. If I were a kid in school, and I were an athiest, in today's environment in the U.S., I would keep my mouth shut. I might get accused of being one of those, you know, "God damned pinko commie athiests".
I think, quite sincerely, that anyone that doesn't think that the U.S. is agressively Christian is probably Christian and thus hasn't had to notice. I suspect Jews, Muslims, Hindus, athiests and others might have a different opinion. |
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I think right above you are arguing that you, as a hypothetical student, are indeed getting something approaching ridiculed (changed to save us a lot of needless semantic argument) for proclaiming you are an atheist. As for the "God damned pinko commie athiest," I call strawman bullshit, unless you heard this from someone who knew your views better  . A woman hasn't been President yet, but that doesn't mean women suffer ridicule for being women.
Did you read my earlier post? I'm agnostic, which is kind of like atheist, but you know, respecting the choice of those in the pews and those not in them. I don't think the U.S. is aggressively Christian, even though there are people who are both aggressive and describe themselves as Christian in the U.S. I couldn't disagree more with your post, in fact, I haven't heard Christians bad-mouthing atheists nearly as much as atheist bitterness against Christianity (not suggesting that your post, no matter how much I disagree with it, is necessarily bitterness), and I'm really unsympathetic to any of the ill-humor on either side directed toward the other.
I don't think someone can get elected in America who admits that they don't believe in a higher power, because 80% of Americans believe in a higher power. It's called democracy, and I've never argued that the popular vote aspect of the democracy is it's most redeeming quality. It's not a problem, because a politician can just say, "I do believe in a higher power," and be private about the rest. That higher power could be Aristotle's prime mover for all we know. I don't think the vast majority of Christians, particularly not those in America, are very aggressive at all about their faith, if you consider how much importance they put on it, Jon Stewart's pithy comebacks aside. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Kuros:
Do you have a source for that chart you posted?
I ask because it seems a little unclear with its statistics. For example, the chart says that in 2025, the number of Christians in Latin America will have increased by 160 million over what was in 2000. However(and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) I would imagine that the vast majority of Latin Americans in 2000 were already identifying themselves as either protestant or Catholic, and that what the chart is recording is mostly natural increase(ie. Christians having babies). And if we're discussing the popularity of Christianity, it seems to me that there is a difference between people converting to Christianity and people simply being born into Christian families.
EDIT: Just noticed that the chart heading says that it gives us the percentage of Christians, but the chart itself only gives us the raw numbers. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Today, religion is of "out of date"... its a dying trend. Getting unpopular. Go atheism. |
No.
Number of Christians in the World
Number and Percentage of Christians by Region
Only in Europe is Christianity receding, and one can hardly call it a 'dying.' But since Europe is arguably slowly becoming less relevent, one should focus on the current 'Fourth Great Awakening' in America, and the rapid expansion of Christianity in Africa and Asia.
I'm not religious, but mark me down as anti-anti-Christian. The condescension against all the religious is unmerited, made more ironic by the fact that some of the anti-Christians suffer from the delusion that religion is on the wane.
| Desultude wrote: |
| Can you see yourself, in a class full of fellow students, in the U.S., proclaiming your atheism with the same resolve as claiming Christianity? |
Yes. But nevermind the fact that atheism is not supposed to be a positive value so much as a negative value. People don't go around proclaiming they don't believe in ghosts until someone suggests they believe in a ghost. However, the idea that atheists might be anything approaching persecuted in the US is laughable. |
This is just showing the actual number of people projected to be Christian, not the percentage of how much it is rising in the countries. The percentage could actually be going down even though the amount of people is going up. The way Catholicism is overpopulating down there (no birth control allowed) this isn't really all that ground breaking. Also, most of this just points out where Christianity is prevalent...
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Some notes on the growth of Christianity in Africa:
African Christians came predominately from the poor and marginalized
By 1985, there were 16,500 conversions a day, an annual rate of over 6 million
In the same period in Europe and North America: 4,300 people were leaving the church each day
��Africa has become, or is becoming, a Christian continent in cultural as well as numerical terms, while on the small scale the West has become, or is rapidly becoming, a post-Christian society.�� (Lamin Sanneh, p. 36) |
or
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��the centers of the church��s universality [are] no longer in Geneva, Rome, Athens, Paris, London, New York, but Kinshasa (Democratic Republic of the Congo), Buenos Aires (Argentina), Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) and Manila (Philippines)
- John Mbiti, Christianity in Africa, p. 154 |
It is growing in all the uneducated areas of the world.
Also, look at the guys references...
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Primary References
bullet
The Next Christendom. The Coming of Global Christianity. Philip Jenkins. Oxford University Press, Oxford, 2002. ISBN 0-19-514616-6
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Whose Religion is Christianity? The Gospel Beyond the West. Lamin Sanneh. Eerdmans Publishing, Grand Rapids, MI, 2003. ISBN 0-8028-2164-2 |
Even in computer science, two references would have earned me a D at best.
While you might be right about it not being a dying trend, it is still dying in the West and where it is growing, I don't think Africa, South America or Korea becoming a major world player anytime soon. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| This is just showing the actual number of people projected to be Christian, not the percentage of how much it is rising in the countries. The percentage could actually be going down even though the amount of people is going up. |
It could be. A source for this might be helpful.
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| While you might be right about it not being a dying trend, it is still dying in the West and where it is growing, I don't think Africa, South America or Korea becoming a major world player anytime soon. |
Perhaps not. But I'm just exposing the idea that religion is 'out of date' and 'dying' to be wrong. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
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| This is just showing the actual number of people projected to be Christian, not the percentage of how much it is rising in the countries. The percentage could actually be going down even though the amount of people is going up. |
It could be. A source for this might be helpful. |
I have no source, I said "could". That means I don't know. But we also don't know if it is going up by your source
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| Quote: |
| While you might be right about it not being a dying trend, it is still dying in the West and where it is growing, I don't think Africa, South America or Korea becoming a major world player anytime soon. |
Perhaps not. But I'm just exposing the idea that religion is 'out of date' and 'dying' to be wrong. |
You haven't managed to do that actually with your graphs and source. That source is crap and the information is not informative either. I don't know if you are right or wrong. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Yes. But nevermind the fact that atheism is not supposed to be a positive value so much as a negative value. People don't go around proclaiming they don't believe in ghosts until someone suggests they believe in a ghost. However, the idea that atheists might be anything approaching persecuted in the US is laughable. |
Please don't put words in my mouth (a lot of that seems to happen on this board ).
But, do you honestly believe that an open athiest could be elected to public office? As someone quoted Jon Stewart as saying, we have had nothing but Christians, avowedly, going to church every Sunday, Christians, ever for president. And only one Catholic, and that was a controversial big deal.
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That John Stewart thing cracks me up (or at least the way it's being summed up here). When some one tries to remind the American public that our nation was shaped by Christians the response is, "Uh, no. Those founding fathers were Deists." But when it comes time to complain about the prevalence of Christian influence in politics, it suddenly becomes, "All our presidents were Christian and we're tired of it." |
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