Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Aussiekimchi]

I have been a recruiter here for a year. I have met many other recruiters. I will not mention my company name because I do not want anyone to accuse me of selling. And that's what we really are to some degree I guess. Salesmen. And like all salesmen, there are degrees of honesty within the industry. I work for a company here. I do not own it. Like you, I am on a salary. I wanted to write something here to maybe give you an idea of what really happens in recruiting.

When you work for a recruiting firm, (on salary, not as the owner) you have a quota to achieve each month. I mean, I have x amount of teachers I should be recruiting each month. The number is not as high as you may think though.

I have met some nice people recruiting here. I think basically the guys I work with, like to see the teachers happy and don't mind telling schools to go jump. Sometimes however, I do raise an eyebrow.

I have also met some awful people doing recruiting in Korea though. The way they talk about teachers is horrible. Actually most of my arguments are about who is right and worng, school or teacher.

I would say that most recruiters here will always take the school's side on any dispute. The foreign teacher does get blamed for most problems and there is not much in the way of understanding our culture when push comes to shove. Foreigners are considered picky and over concerned about small matters.

What I see from SOME teachers though, is that they suddenly become sticklers for the contractual agreement, only when the school is in breach. SOME see no problem coming to work drunk, unshowered or over tired.
I have NOT met one teacher here, who has done a great job, had a great relationship with the boss and then has been ripped off.

But back to recruiters.
I was shocked as to the size of some of these companies. I asked about some of the companies you could probably name of the top of your head and was told that most of them simply work out of their homes and have no office! And the thought of actually checking out schools with their own eyes, horrified some. Besides, most recruiters have no idea about Education, particularly Language Education...I mean really..what questions would they ask anyway?

When I first started doing this last year, I used to go to all of my schools and really really check them out. These days, I just do not have time. And here therein lies the problem.
Recruiters do not have time or just do not care about checking the schools out thoroughly.
My day is made up of three things��.which annoys me no end because I took this job to do a completely different task.
In the mornings I talk to teachers. In the afternoons I talk to schools. In between I send emails to prospective teachers and reply to those who have sent applications.
It just is physically impossible for me to leave the office and visit schools. And I am one of you guys! I want you to get a good school, salary and apartment. I think all hagwans here that don��t pay salary, impose 11th month firings, those which can��t seem to get that hot water turned on, or send teachers to the book shop to buy a curriculum, or refuse to speak English in the school and think that it is ok to change contracts should be burned to the ground.

So can you imagine how often the recruiter who just wants to make the cash and forget you gets out to the schools? Not much.

When I talk to some schools I just find out if they have a curriculum, a few English speakers, decent accommodation and seem ok over the phone. I try to talk to the foreign teachers there, but sometimes I can��t. This is a problem.

I do have about 30 schools here that I know really well. I mean I could tell you just about anything about the school and I have a fair idea of what you will experience throughout your stay. But others I have little idea. I just go on a phone call. I just do not have time to get around to everyone. And yes, sometimes I go on the word of one of the Korean recruiters in my office. Many times it is just an educated guess. And usually, it is here that your future problems could stem from.

Like me, the majority of recruiters are not doing the necessary groundwork. I am sure some are telling you they are doing it though.

There are many recruiters out there now, and all want to get your fee. They want you to accept any job they offer, come anytime, and sign any contract.
Herein lies another problem. Some of you idiots do this! Some teachers actually come here without doing any research, without talking to foreign staff or at least English speakers at the school, without googling the location of the school, without having other interviews just so as to compare offers. If you do this, you may not deserve problems, but you will get them.

I have read some questions about how many recruiters to use. I think only 3 or 4 is more than enough. Remember, we will keep sending you pestering emails until we know you have found something. I will send the average teacher 3 or 4 emails a week. If you have 4 recruiters, that could be up to 20 emails a week!
Don't just use one recruiter though. Sample a few and then go with your two favourites. Make them fight over you. Remember, there will always be more jobs than teachers in Korea.

If your recruiter cannot speak English, forget him.
If your recruiter likes to call you after 1am forget him.
If your recruiter never asks to speak with you on the phone, forget him.
If your recruiter does not try to get contact info about foreign teachers at the school forget him.
If your recruiter is a foreigner, make sure he is in Korea or has been to Korea for a long time in the past and is still in contact with clients in Korea.

Recently I was looking for some part time work. Incredibly, I had to use a recruiter, as my company does not do part time stuff. Forgetting the above rules, I got told about a job and figured I could do it alone. The thing that annoyed me though, was that this joker received a finder��s fee for a 1 minute phone call. I guess you guys resent us the same way for the same reason. SO MAKE YOUR RECRUITER WORK FOR HIS FEE! Ask as many questions as you can about the school. Make him do the groundwork.

If you are doing part time stuff, do not accept a job where the recruiter takes a percentage of your salary. The school should pay him a fee and that is it. You should not lose a cent from accepting a job!

I guess I can now sit back and wait for the barrage of abuse from the recruiter haters in Korea. Bring it on. I would love to have a crack at a Korean bus driver. They are evil.

[JLarter]

May have missed it in the text but what recruiter are you working for? I'm going to be needing a job in September!

[Aussiekimchi]

Sorry, the purpose of this was not to drum up business. I would be crucified if I tried.

[alabamaman]

Edited

[Gord]

[alabamaman]

Edited

[Grotto]

gord....look there's a rock....get back under it!

Posters here are very tired of trying to educate you! Its like trying to teach a pig to juggle...its not going to happen no matter how hard you try, so why bother

Deductions from your check are: pension, tax and health...nowhere do you see "and recruiters fees/percentages".

[Aussiekimchi]

if you take a part time job the salary offered might be x amount.
Just make sure it is the school paying you not the recruiter.
The school should pay the recruiter a spotter's fee themselves. You should receive whatever the advertised price was, no less.
If the recruiter is paying you, that usually means they will take a percentage, and usually the school has not paid that spotter's fee. This means you are paying the recruiter for finding you the job. Obviously you don't want to do this.
The school will pay a spotter's fee as most recruiters have bills to pay also and like you, they probably don't want to work for free.
If you think the salary is too low, don't take the job.
You may also want to question the tax rate you are paying. If it is an "under the table" job, you shouldn't be paying any tax.
And yes, some of the posts are correct. There is questionable integrity and honesty in the industry, that is why you need to ask the right questions. If the recruiter or the school can't answer them, don't take the job, there are others schools and other recruiters. Again, there will always be more jobs available than teachers. If you have a decent application, you will eventually find a decent job. What you do with it once you get here is up to you.

[Gord]

[Gord]

[Hanson]

I dunno about anyone else, but I thought the OP was refreshingly honest coming from a recruiter.

Then again, he may be trying to drum up new clients...

Nawwww, I'll stop being cynical and go with the honesty/refreshing bit.

[Grotto]

[Aussiekimchi]

Yeah whatever.
For those of you reading this to gain a little help, take the initiative of deciding whether the job is worth interviewing for and then worth taking. Don't let anyone push you into it. Ask the right questions. Check out efl-law.com and find some good ones to ask.
Don't rely solely on a recruiter to place you in your right job...you would be just asking for future problems.
If your recruiter gets pushy or won't stop sending you emails, tell him/her to bugger off and block that email address. You could also just tell them you have found a job..that usually stops the calls and emails.
ok..so now please resume the recruiter bashing.

[seoulsista]

How many people are you able to recruit in a month? If you are only able to recruit 8-10 a month at a million won each then and your company takes half of that (I'm guessing) then I understand why you don't have time to go our to schools and check them out. However if you recruit twice that then your company should be hiring people exclusively for the purpose of going out and researching the schools.

So how many recruits are you talking about?

[Aussiekimchi]

Now I do not know everything there is to know about the recruiting industry here..and my opinions are based on only what I have seen and done myself.
Someone asked who the reputable recruiters are...
there is no answer to that...what is a reputable recruiter? Is it someone who is honest about the job they are selling to you..yeah..but my point is, the recruiter only knows so much about that school because he doesn't work there.
Is a reputable recruiter someone who gets out to every school he recruits for? In the fairy floss world yes definately...but in the real world that does not happen. I have visited and know well about 20 or 30 schools...but I look at my "jobs offered" list and I have over 200!! Now let me be clear here. My point is that this is what actually happens..so do not take for granted that your recruiter knows absolutely everything about the school.

Another asked how many schools I recruit for in a month. I guess you mean how many teachers do I place in a month and that could vary from 5 to 30.
For example when the public school hiring season is around, it is flat chat. I would guess most of the bigger recruiters are doing about the same numbers. So in the real world, I just can't visit as much as I would like to. If I get to see 2 out of every 5 new schools, I am happy. The others I just have to call and make a decision on them from that phone call.
Those of you thinking about public school positions, think carefully if using a recruiter. Chances are, the recruiter has not seen the school simply because of weight of numbers.
Last year I was doing about 2 placements a month. I had more time for visits. But some of the teachers still had problems. You just can't see some things coming. This is the Korean ESL industry remember.
So maybe there is a case for choosing a smaller recruiter on the assumption they have more time to visit the few schools they recruit for..ok yeah, but you know what happens with assumptions.
Surely there can only be this much animosity around about recruiters because so many people have blindly trusted them.
Don't make the same mistake. Your recruiter is there to show you jobs that (hopefully) match your preferences, set up an interview, and tell you a little about the school. If you don't like anything in these 3 steps, ask to look at another job. When you have an interview you like, sign the contract. Your recruiter should also check in with you from time to time to see how you are going. Everything should be your decision.
I used a recruiter when I first came here...to this day I have no idea who he is or what company he worked for. That was my fault, not his.