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Homer
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 Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| My mornings are simply back to back periods with no break although I always have one or two periods off, but I MUST use those for school. I can't go out, browse the net etc etc. |
Yes...welcome to teaching. 
Off time between teaching periods depends on your contract and school....if the clause said you have to use breaks to prepare lessons then thats what it says. I suppose they do not want to pay you for browsing the net or going to the store....
As for the deposit, if you signed the contract and agreed to a deposit in the contract then it is not illegal and really the hitman clause is hardly a fair comparison....
As for your other issues, you now have 3 reasonable choices:
a) Give your employer notice and quit.
b) Talk to your employer and try to iron out the problems.
c) Contact the Labour board. |
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StAxX SOuL
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies guys.
In response to Homer, I did always intend to use free periods to prepare for my lessons but there's a limit to it, and when it violates the entitlement to an hour's break for your own free use, which although is not an express term, is implied into every labor contract then it becomes an issue. It's only amplified by my hours exceeding those specified in the LSA. Whether it's the case or not, as far as I'm concerned I'm paid for my teaching time, sure some prep comes along with that by not to the extent where you're expected to supplement every new theme in every textbook with props meaning all your downtime is, and is expected to be, work time too. If I'm honest, back home if I pursued my career right now I'd be working longer hours and that's how I justified taking the position in the belief that I would be able to use free time as I pleased, but this isn't my long term career path. I'm here to do a job properly and to do it well, but at the same time I'm here to experience Korea outside of the workplace, and I'm definitely not here to be exploited.
| Grotto wrote: |
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| Deposits are only illegal if you DON't agree to them. If you signed the contract, and agreed to these deposits, there is not much you can do. You should have asked for these deposits to be removed. |
Deposits are illegal as they violate the labour laws. By law they are only allowed to deduct tax, insurance and pension. Exceptions are collective agreements...of which our contracts dont qualify. The deposit itself violates Korean labour laws which supercedes the contract. If you stand up for yourself they cannot deduct this from your pay....if you lie down and take it up the butt then of course they can
To the OP. Contract the labour board...cite everything that you pointed out and file for violation of contract and ask for termination of said contract. |
This is what I'm getting at. You can't sign to illegal terms because illegal terms within a contract void the contract meaning that it was never constituted in the first place. In a twist today my friend who left hired a labor lawyer and let him go through the contract and he had this incredulous look on his face for the duration of the read. She had the penalty clause removed before signing, but he was especially interested in what he said were the illegal deposits which remained.
Since the lawyer is an associate of a friend I intend to go down and grab my free consultation with him before putting it to the labor board. I was here looking for a second opinion to see if I was on the right tracks for interpreting the contract and law. I did actually keep checking back to see if you'd replied Grotto, lol. So, thank you! |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| But as far as the attention I'm paying to contract law, I went through a 3 year BA in Law, |
If you have a degree in law, WTF are you doing teaching English in Korea? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, I met a guy last week with an MA in physics...teaching at a kindie hagwan.  |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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hello all,
I dont know much about law, but in reading the quote from Artical 22, (1), where it says "null and void to that extent"; doesnt that mean only that part of the contract is void? If so, be default, doesnt that mean the rest of the contract, at least the legal bits, are still effective?
Article 22 (Labor Contract contrary to This Act)
(1) A labor contract which establishes conditions of employment which do not meet the standards provided for in this Act shall be null and void to that extent.
I dont know, but I was bored, and thought I would ask.... |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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As I said a couple of days ago ...
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| (BTW, in most countries such "illegal" conditions do not void the entire contract). |
So one clause is invalid: but the rest, including the payment clause, remains in force. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| StAxX SOuL wrote: |
(1) and when it violates the entitlement to an hour's break for your own free use, which although is not an express term, is implied into every labor contract then it becomes an issue.
This is what I'm getting at. (2) You can't sign to illegal terms because illegal terms within a contract void the contract meaning that it was never constituted in the first place. I! |
(numbers are mine)
1. The hour's break is not for "your own free use." It's for resting. Do you think Samsung/Daewoo and other big company employees can just leave the plant for a hour to go shopping? If you worked at most companies back home, you would be expected to be on the premises during work hours.
2. In many countries illegal terms do not make the contract null and void. Only those terms which contravene labour law. I thought you said you studied law? You should know this. |
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IwalkAlone
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| StAxX SOuL wrote: |
(1) and when it violates the entitlement to an hour's break for your own free use, which although is not an express term, is implied into every labor contract then it becomes an issue.
This is what I'm getting at. (2) You can't sign to illegal terms because illegal terms within a contract void the contract meaning that it was never constituted in the first place. I! |
(numbers are mine)
1. The hour's break is not for "your own free use." It's for resting. Do you think Samsung/Daewoo and other big company employees can just leave the plant for a hour to go shopping? If you worked at most companies back home, you would be expected to be on the premises during work hours.
2. In many countries illegal terms do not make the contract null and void. Only those terms which contravene labour law. I thought you said you studied law? You should know this. |
Numbers are mine....
1. An hour break is an hour break...I don't know where you grew up but in America, people leave on their breaks. Don't believe me? Take a stroll in downtown houston and count the businessmen eating with their buddies or the teenage sackers and moppers out to grab a bite. Work hours are not break hours/ minutes. There is a huge difference.
2. You are correct. However, some have clauses that nullify the contract once a party has broken it. Of course damages must be paid and bonuses erased depending on whose fault it was. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| 2. You are correct. However, some have clauses that nullify the contract once a party has broken it. Of course damages must be paid and bonuses erased depending on whose fault it was. |
Well, I understand contract but I'm buggered if I understand that! 
Contract nullified after breach?
Bonuses erased? |
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StAxX SOuL
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
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| But as far as the attention I'm paying to contract law, I went through a 3 year BA in Law, |
If you have a degree in law, WTF are you doing teaching English in Korea? |
I graduated last year. I'm 22, and I'd been in education solidly. Rather than travel and hop from place to place I decided that I wanted to experience a culture a little more completely. Teaching seemed the best way to do just that - its by no means a long term ambition. |
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StAxX SOuL
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| StAxX SOuL wrote: |
(1) and when it violates the entitlement to an hour's break for your own free use, which although is not an express term, is implied into every labor contract then it becomes an issue.
This is what I'm getting at. (2) You can't sign to illegal terms because illegal terms within a contract void the contract meaning that it was never constituted in the first place. I! |
(numbers are mine)
1. The hour's break is not for "your own free use." It's for resting. Do you think Samsung/Daewoo and other big company employees can just leave the plant for a hour to go shopping? If you worked at most companies back home, you would be expected to be on the premises during work hours.
2. In many countries illegal terms do not make the contract null and void. Only those terms which contravene labour law. I thought you said you studied law? You should know this. |
1. Yes, its typically known as a lunch hour but since the nature of 'kindergarten teacher' sees my lunch hour spent in 'lunchtime table classes' I don't have any kind of break. Of course some jobs see exceptions to the laws governing working hours and recess periods, but these exceptions are stated within the Act, and ESL Teacher [or teacher for that matter] was not deemed to warrant inclusion.
2. I fully understand the concepts of null and void but you're not making a great deal of sense here, especially so because we're not talking about 'voidable' which is an entirely different beast. Herein we are talking about illegal terms and the typical reason for a term in an employment contract being illegal is because it contravenes the act which offers protection for employees. The things I've referenced prior are contrary to various sections of the Labor Standards Act (which governs employment in Korea). Exactly what is your definition of illegal? Illegal means you're breaking some kind of law, and you can't contract to break the law governing your region. If you do sign, the 'contract' is void which means its never constituted in the first place. As far as legal terms included in the contract which are subsequently breached then you're talking about dissolution of the contract, meaning that neither party need longer satisfy the contractual obligations, and if you wanted I could elaborate on the concepts of fundamental and secondary breaches and the consequences for situations where a term does not specifically deal with this matter. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:42 am Post subject: |
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However, with deposits you have a gray area since your employer is also in effect your landlord.
Hence, a landlord can ask for a deposit on an appartment he rents out or provides. This makes the labour law issue a bit murky. In essence, if you signed a contract saying you will pay a deposit for the housing then that is not illegal and is not in reality an illegal deduction like an extra tax or some other unjustified deduction. The deposit also makes sense for the employer as he or she is responsible for the accomodation. It is just a safety net.
Concerning your break...if you do not get a true lunch break then that is something to discuss with your employer. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| Hence, a landlord can ask for a deposit on an appartment he rents out or provides. This makes the labour law issue a bit murky. In essence, if you signed a contract saying you will pay a deposit for the housing then that is not illegal and is not in reality an illegal deduction like an extra tax or some other unjustified deduction. The deposit also makes sense for the employer as he or she is responsible for the accomodation. It is just a safety net. |
And according to Korean law the money must be put in an interest bearing account. Considering that Koreans seem to pick and choose which laws they will obey/enforce/follow or use 
Technically your employer is not your landlord...the landlord is the owner of the building who collects rent....technically your employer is the tenant and you are his subtenant?....any laws about tenants charging other tenants damage deposits??? Oh wait its not a damage deposit its just a deposit for unknown reasons(midnight run)  |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
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That depends Grotto....many schools actually *buy* the appartments.
Others pay key money and then pay a monthly amount.
Neither of this means that the school would not have to pay for damages made by the teachers...hence the security deposit.
Does the deposit protect schools against midnight runs? In part it does that to and what is wrong with that?
I suppose its all ok for teachers to protect themselves but not for schools right Grotto?
Some teachers get cheated thats for sure...some however just stiff their schools....or perhaps you believe that never happens and that all schools are bad. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="IwalkAlone"][
1. An hour break is an hour break...I don't know where you grew up but in America, people leave on their breaks.
1. You are aware that we are not in America, yes? |
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