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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: Young Americans |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4225013.stm
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US teens 'reject' key freedoms
Cornfield in Philadelphia, US
Two-thirds believed it was illegal to burn the flag
A significant number of US high-school students regard their constitutional right to freedom of speech as excessive, according to a new survey.
Over a third of the 100,000 students questioned felt the First Amendment went "too far" in guaranteeing freedom of speech, press, worship and assembly.
Only half felt newspapers should be allowed to publish stories that did not have the government's approval.
The US government has committed itself to spreading "freedom" abroad.
In his second inaugural address, President George W Bush said the survival of liberty in the US depended on the success of liberty abroad.
Some rights groups have however attacked his administration for restricting civil liberties in measures that followed the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington.
'Dangerous ignorance'
The two-year, $1m survey across US schools - in which 8,000 teachers were also interviewed - suggested students held a number of misconceptions about the First Amendment, and were more censorious on some issues than their elders.
Some 83% of students polled felt people should be allowed to express unpopular views, as opposed to 97% of teachers.
Roughly half the students polled wrongly believed the US government had the right to censor the internet, while two-thirds believed it was illegal to burn the US flag - another misconception.
The president of the John S and James L Knight Foundation, which conducted the research, said: "Ignorance about the basics of this free society is a danger to this nation's future."
The survey concluded that better teaching and a bigger emphasis on student journalism could raise awareness of the First Amendment in American classrooms. |
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Bronski
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| I cringe when I think of this next generation. The kids are not alright. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| ah yes, the wonderful education system of the United States. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't worry too much about it. When you are young, the power of government to smooth all the edges of society seems to be both possible and desirable. It is with age (unless I regress back) that folks begin to see the lies and develop cynical attitudes towards government and what she is able to do (and most importantly, why!). Sometimes.
I suspect these kids will develop mature political worldviews, once they are free of the government teachers. |
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Don Gately
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I had a friend who used to say this, re: Young Americans
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You ain't a pimp and you ain't a hustler
A pimp's got a Cadi and a lady��s got a Chrysler
Black's got respect, and white's got his soul train
Mama's got cramps, and look at your hands shake
I heard the news today, oh boy
I got a suite and you got defeat
Ain't there a man you can say no more?
And, ain't there a woman I can sock on the jaw?
And, ain't there a child I can hold without judging?
Ain't there a pen that will write before they die?
Ain't you proud that you've still got faces?
Ain't there one damn song that can make me
break down and cry? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Roughly half the students polled wrongly believed the US government had the right to censor the internet, while two-thirds believed it was illegal to burn the US flag - another misconception.
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So if I take pornographic photographs of children and put them up on my webiste, the US government has no authority to get me to take them down? The idea that they do have such authority just a big misconception? |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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Roughly half the students polled wrongly believed the US government had the right to censor the internet, while two-thirds believed it was illegal to burn the US flag - another misconception.
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So if I take pornographic photographs of children and put them up on my webiste, the US government has no authority to get me to take them down? The idea that they do have such authority just a big misconception? |
Yes, and, being the most internet and computer savvy, I'll bet they just might know about carnivore.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/carnivore.htm |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| A National Academy of Sciences poll, for ex., once showed how a majority of American high school seniors believed that dinosaurs and humans had once lived together. |
Hell, we got that right here. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Should the govt censor the internet? I do not believe this is possible on practicality grounds, so it is probably a moot point.
Should the govt police the internet? Absolutely, and the reason OntheOtherHand cites is only one of several.
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What I was trying to get at was this:
If someone asked me "Does the government have the right to censor the internet?", I would think of the scenario I mentioned, involving the child pornographer. And I would assume that after the police broke down his door and hauled him into the paddy wagon, they would find a way to get his images off the internet.
Now, that constitutes censorship of the internet, and could very well have been the type of scenario that some of the high school students had in mind when they answered "yes" to the question. However, it seems to me that the people writing about this issue are trying to spin it as: "most high school students think that the government regulates the internet as a matter of course, the way they regulate TV and radio; oh my god we've get a generation of sheep being led to the totalitarian slaughter here". But given the ambiguity of the word "censorhip", I don't think such a conclusion is warranted.
Just a guess, but I suspect this survey was deliberately worded in such a way so as to elicit the most alarming responses from the high schoolers.
EDIT: As well, there is the ambiguity of the phrase "have the right to...".
If an American says "I have the right to bear arms", he might mean that the right to bear arms is written into the constitution. But a Canadian could say "I have the right to bear arms", and mean that he thinks that the government should not infringe on his ownership of guns. The former statement is close to being a matter of fact, whereas the latter is more a matter of opinion. But the article says that the students were factually wrong in their beliefs about internet censorship, even though they might not have thought they were answering a factual question. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
I wouldn't worry too much about it. When you are young, the power of government to smooth all the edges of society seems to be both possible and desirable. It is with age (unless I regress back) that folks begin to see the lies and develop cynical attitudes towards government and what she is able to do (and most importantly, why!). Sometimes.
I suspect these kids will develop mature political worldviews, once they are free of the government teachers. |
Genuine curiousity: I've never heard the government refered to as 'she' before (or as 'he' for that matter), though I'm not implying this is not a convention or that it is in anyway wrong either (before the poster takes umbridge...calm down man!). I'm interested from a linguistic viewpoint, as I thought he and she were reserved for vehicles (for example ships ) or countries. Has anyone else heard 'she' used in this context? It may be a perculiarity of one particular poster, but I'd be very interested to hear otherwise. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| and what she is able to do |
Yes, this usage is idiosyncratic, but all countries are either 'he' or 'she'. Mother Russia and the Fatherland (Germany) for example. Most are 'she'. I suspect it was just a slip of the typing fingers. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: |
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I'm surprised anyone responded to this post. Anyone who can spell their own name knows that you can get any answer you want from a poll.
I also will be willing to guarantee you that if you restrict the poll to the kids who have finished their American Government course, you will get a wildly different percentage in the answer column. Hysterically enough, you will get quite different answers from any group of students if you quiz them before and after a course on any topic. Odd, isn't it? |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Bronski wrote: |
| I cringe when I think of this next generation. The kids are not alright. |
I cringe when I think of this generation of ESL teachers who eagerly lap up every bit of left-wing propaganda spoon-fed to them by academics determined to create some sort of Republican/right-wing bogeyman.
This is truly the most specious bit of drivel I've come across in a looooong long time. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Just a guess, but I suspect this survey was deliberately worded in such a way so as to elicit the most alarming responses from the high schoolers. |
Good guess. |
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