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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: British emancipation of American slaves |
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With all the back-and-forth bickering between Yanks and Commonwealth types on here, I thought people might be interested in reading this article.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/27/opinion/edgreen.php
I've read Schama's book on the French Revolution, and while it was certainly interseting, one does come away with the impression that he has an anti-revolutionary bias. Greenway in this review observes that while the Brits gave refuge to some North American slaves, slavery as an institution continued elsewhere in the Empire.
Plus, one supposes that blacks in the USA are currently better off, by a pretty astronomical margin, than the descendants of the freed slaves who Britain shipped off to Sierra Leone.
Last edited by On the other hand on Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:02 am Post subject: |
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You seem to know a bit about this period so maybe you can explain something to me. I've never understood why the 13 colonies revolted in the first place.
Of course it's a story much mythologised in American history and the leaders were radical philosophers of the enlightenment and all that, but what made the general population get so riled up about something like import duty on tea? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: |
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You seem to know a bit about this period so maybe you can explain something to me. I've never understood why the 13 colonies revolted in the first place.
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Actually, I doubt I know much more than you do. Like you, I just know the basic textbook stuff, ie. taxation without representation. I read somewhere that the Declaration of Independence gives a list of grievances, but I have never examined that document in any depth.
You could always check wikipedia. Or perhaps one of our American posters(or just someone versed in American history) can fill in the blanks. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| what made the general population get so riled up about something like import duty on tea? |
Interesting and very complex question.
Some of the answer:
The colonies each had a colonial government that held the power of taxation and well as other powers. They were local governments, in the sense that King and Parliament were supposed to regulate trade and provide some of the defense, i.e. external affairs. The first colonial government began meeting in 1619, so there was a long tradition of (limited) self-government. It also trained a political class in the arts of government.
Another contributing factor was the series of Wars of Empire between Britain and France. The colonists contributed significantly to their own defense, which tended to give them a sense of confidence.
With the ousting of the French from Canada, the colonies were relieved of the threat of foreign invasion which had hung over them since 1690. It also gave them some experience in cooperating in wartime. More than one person predicted that the defeat of France in Quebec would end British rule in Boston. Some even suggested handing Quebec back to the French after the war.
The mercantilist economic philosophy of the day prevented colonists from engaging in many activities. They were supposed to ship out raw materials to England and then buy back the finished products (plus shipping charges).
With the end of the nine year long 7 Years War the British government began passing laws and exercising powers they never had before--over the opposition of many of their leading politicians (who were out of power), including Pitt, Burke and Fox. Are Lord North and Townsend remembered in the same way they are?
Some of the things they did were to remove trials to Halifax so as to make it very difficult for the accused to bring in defense witnesses; dissolve colonial governments or arbitrarily move the legislature to a different city; quarter troops in private houses; ban settlement west of the Appalachian Mountains--all in addition to collecting what many considered a variety of illegal taxes...in short, the royal government acted in harsh and arbitrary ways that convinced many that the goal was to create a tyranny over the colonies.
It isn't really surprising that the Revolution happened. Seemingly, the British learned their lesson about how to govern colonies. Someone made the analogy of a dad telling his 20 year old son to be home by 10. He was...to pack up to move to his own apartment. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| God I promise to choke the next person who posts some sniping article about the irrelevant merits of one western nation over another. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| The point in the article that caught my eye: the freed blacks were taken to Canada, not England. I googled and found this-- "...the slave trade was abolished in the British Empire in 1807. It took 26 more years of agitation to abolish slavery within the British Empire." |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Re: the American Revolution.
Interesting. Taxes or other impositions from above, however light, are always unwelcome and particularly when new or seen as new.
After a cursory read, however, I'd say that nothing would have happened had the 13 colonies not already had their own parliaments, legal system, and militia, if not army. When you have 2 systems in place like that you automatically divide loyalties when any point of disagreement arises. Look what happened to Korea.
Also, probably nothing would have happened without 2 competing ideologies at play - Old World monarchy versus the enlightenment philosophy of natural liberty. Again, look at the consequences of ideological divide in Korea.
It's easy to see the British brought things to a head by sending large numbers of troops in too. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: |
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God I promise to choke the next person who posts some sniping article about the irrelevant merits of one western nation over another.
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You have shamed me into retracting my sensationalistic, bait-and-switch headline.
(after all I wouldn't wanna antagonize those psycho violent Americans who might hunt me down and blow my head off with a smith and wesson winking smiley goes here) |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| I believe "no taxation without representation" was one of the buzz phrases bandied about at the time. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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God I promise to choke the next person who posts some sniping article about the irrelevant merits of one western nation over another.
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You have shamed me into retracting my sensationalistic, bait-and-switch headline.
(after all I wouldn't wanna antagonize those psycho violent Americans who might hunt me down and blow my head off with a smith and wesson winking smiley goes here) |
I'm an australian who just loathes the culturkampf going on at the moment. couldnt give a four foot flying f#ck who has the points on whom. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Probably isn't the thread for you, then. The title wasn't a give-away as to where it was likely to lead? Are you attempting to put this forum in a headlock via your condescending, smahta-than-you armpit?
Just asking. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
Probably isn't the thread for you, then. The title wasn't a give-away as to where it was likely to lead? Are you attempting to put this forum in a headlock via your condescending, smahta-than-you armpit?
Just asking. |
Probably, I am just sick of these Yank vs Canuk or NA vs Yurp threads dominating this otherwise interesting forum right now. As a serious political scientist I can honestly say this kind of thing is the Jerry Springer or Oprah or The Sun of political debates and I thoroughly detest it. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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As a political science major speaking to a serious political scientist, I'll say the same stuff in a different way.
Why browse here? |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
As a political science major speaking to a serious political scientist, I'll say the same stuff in a different way.
Why browse here? |
Dunno, its like watching a train wreck at times? |
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