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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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 Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Roch wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| kangnam mafioso wrote: |
| jay-shi wrote: |
| I think you also need to define "friend". After a little over 2 years here, I know a lot of Koreans. Most of whom I would categorize as acquaintances. Not that they aren't great people to hang around with and that I don't enjoy their company. Real friends though, that I could count on for anything and vice-versa, I can count on the fingers of one hand. Then again, I could say the same about the number of waygookin friends I have here as well, or friends back home for that matter. I am not a very needy person socially and I guess I believe in quality over quantity as far as friendships go. My Korean friends remind me that there are some truly amazing people here. |
i think you hit the nail on the head. koreans have a different conceptualization of "friendship" and "love" than we do in the west. nothing wrong with that, but it does lead to some confusion. no sense in trying to explain it here -- you could write a book about it, and i'm not an expert, but it's worth noting.
during my first 2 years in korea, i managed to meet some pretty cool koreans, both men and women, but i will say that my relationship with them was different from that with my western "mates," and not necessarily in a bad way. just different.
like the kerouac avatar, btw; just finished reading "lonesome traveler." good stuff! |
Very true. Most Koreans want you for the commodity that they so yearn for. I have been here 2 years, and can say that I am friends with 3 total Koreans (two a husband and wife; the other a teacher at our school). It's hard man. Once you get into the rythm, you'll be able to quickly weed-out, from the get go, who wants you for the English practice and who wants you for you.
Let's face it, in life, friendship is a figurehead for the ever so horrendous question, "what can I get from you?" Wait a minute. Just think about it. You want to become friends with the dude at your work why? Because you are lonely? You want someone to hang out with? You want.... See what I mean? There is NO relationship on Earth that can be justified as one party not seeking out something. Everything in life is give and take; you have to find the right balance. |
My fellow Floridian:
True friendship means people who have developed affectionate feelings for one another after meeting over a common interest. It's the same as brothers: You hang with one another for a sufficiently long enough period of time and you'll be like brothers -dig?
Greek Philosophy - Socratic to Aristotelian - differentiates between Sexual Love (Eros) and Friendship or Brotherly/Sisterly Love (Agape). True friends share Agape feelings toward one another and are, said Plato and Aristotle, the better for it, etc.
Roch
Destin, Fl. |
nice point however i beg to differ:
If you are in a relationship (intimate or friendly) and that person doesn't reciprocate anything (attention, monetary courtesy gestures, etc.) as you do to them, you will begin to re-evaluate things.
Any one person that can seriously say that if they felt like they were doing everything in the relationship (calling, picking up a fare here and there, paying for quick lunches, always going to their place, always setting up hang out dates, etc.) and nothing was being given back, tangible or intangible, that they wouldn't "reconsider" things, please say something.  |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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I made a few friends in the city where I lived last contract term. One turned out to be a psychotic freak, and the others were nice, but now I'm gone and don't care too much to visit or call. They were nice, but no one I just HAVE to see again.
I've made a couple acquaintances in Seoul who may end up as friends.
What I really want is a Korean friend who speaks no English. One of the girls I know in my previous city doesn't speak English, but I met her literally a week before moving away, so we didn't talk much. I had a guy friend who spoke only a tiny tiny bit of English, but he went off to the military/police and disappeared.
When I've asked my English-speaking Korean friends to speak Korean to me, they just sort of laugh like it's cute, lob a softball "Where were you born" type of question at me, switch back to English, and usually laugh at me when I speak Korean. It's cute, they say. Kinda disappointing.
Maybe they look at me like some here look at the people who want to learn English. I don't see anything particularly bad about that. If someone wants to hang out with me to learn English, I just assume they also enjoy my personality, because everyone else does--why wouldn't this person? 
Q. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Not really. I used to have a big circle of friends both Korean and otherwise in my freshman year but have since learned to be a lot more selective about who I make any emtional investment in. People move away, change jobs and the challenge is in keeping the connection after the thing you had in common is gone. |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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No... I'm too good looking.
The women only want me for one thing, and the men are scared of me cuz I take all the female attention away from them.
Some good American friends, though.
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| All my closest friends are Korean. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Real Reality wrote: |
[[/b]. How do foreigners fit into this scheme? The simple answer is they don't.... you should not expect to be accepted as a member of a Korean's inner circle.
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This is one of the more foolish things you have said. So foreigners who are married to Koreans are not part of the "inner circle". There is some mysterious "inner circle" that only Koreans can be part of?
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sonshine20
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Some of my closest friends are Koreans from when I was in Korea. That was from when I was an exchange student in college, and I think Koreans make friends more easily/often in school than afterward in the work world.
My friends and I have kept in contact for 5 years after I left Korea. Anyway, I definitely feel like I have Korean friends that definitely don't just want something from me. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Korean culture does have one aspect about it that allows a utilitarian social relationship. A couple of times I've had Korean friends say they do/don't want to meet another friend of mine because he 'can/can't' help me. I've been here forever and it still strikes me as cold.
That said, I think for people who only plan on being around for a year to relax and just enjoy the easy acquaintances and not expect more. 99% of the people in our lives aren't any more than that.
But for people who are planning on being around longer, it does make sense to be more selective. Enjoy the acquaintances for the good times they offer while keeping an eye out for those few who are true friendship material.
I've been lucky enough to make a handful of true friends here in addition to lots of interesting and enjoyable acquaintances. |
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butter808fly
Joined: 09 May 2004
Location: Northern California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have a Korean big sister type who I love dearly... Koreans can be the kindest and most giving people. I hope we remain friends for life  I see another for conversation and she told her Mom *I* was like a sister but its still just meeting for conversation.
They are sometimes really great people and sometimes they just drive me crazy... Koreans that is. The ones I work with are a whole other ball of relationship.
Its funny, thinking about my relationships here.... hardly any are from America... thats the good thing about this place.. meeting new people from different backgrounds.
Last edited by butter808fly on Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Just a random thought. It would be interesting to think about what's going on in the so-called multicultural cities in Canada as a reflection on what you guys are experiencing in Korea as a westerner. It's such a complex and sensitive social issue to be studied so I don't think I have enough in my head to word it out but let me just speak for myself. Even in Canada, IMHO, intercultural friendship is quite uncommon to see even when you consider the great diversity of people's backgrounds. I mean the true intercultural ones excluding those between, for example, a Canada-born Korean who can't speak Korean and is all (white) Canadian inside and a Scottish Canadian who was born and raised in Canada, too.
It seems out of nature people just stick together and form their cicle of friends within their 'groups.' There is no obligation that you have to try to make friends with different backgrounds. 'Trying' to make friends is usually not how it works when you make true friends after all. They just become friends in shared experiences. Having shared experiences is usually initiated by sharing the same/similar cultural backgrounds/native languages. Without any pressure, they tend to like and feel comfortable with people similar to them. Among many possible intercultural associations, let's pick on that between Canadian whites and Non-Candian Asians. I have observed that it is virtually non-existent. I don't know if it comes from the "too cool to be with this FOB"(Of course, I hate this term. Even some Asians use this word to describe themselves or other Asians. I came to Canada by airplane obviously and have paid lots of taxes, etc but get called by a name reminding of the Boat People? Is there such term for calling newly-arrived European immigrants?) attitude of the whites or the self-defensiveness of the 1.5 gen Asian people not to be looked down on. Whatsoever, in the essence, I think they just simply don't feel the need to make friends with people from different cultures, going out of their way. In my limited experiences, the white guys who make good friends with Non-Candian Asians either were gay(I know one nice gay guy who's learning Chinese and plans to go to HongKong) and/or has decent knowledge and particular interests in Asia. When it comes to girls, I think the dynamics and driving forces are a bit different though. Maybe someone else can complete this topic better.
Last edited by doggyji on Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| DP.. sorry. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Real Reality wrote: |
[[/b]. How do foreigners fit into this scheme? The simple answer is they don't.... you should not expect to be accepted as a member of a Korean's inner circle.
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This is one of the more foolish things you have said. So foreigners who are married to Koreans are not part of the "inner circle". There is some mysterious "inner circle" that only Koreans can be part of?
:roll: :roll: :roll: |
That is a quote from the Consular Affairs Bureau, Canadian Embassy.
| Quote: |
| you should not expect to be accepted as a member of a Korean's inner circle. |
Consular Affairs Bureau, Canadian Embassy
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/pubs/korea-en.asp#Cultural
Here is a quote from the U. S. Embassy.
| Quote: |
| Korea is not an egalitarian society traditionally; one is either of a higher or a lower status than other people. Foreigners do not fit neatly into any scheme. They are normally treated graciously as one would a guest, but they may never be able to break into that close, inner circle.... a foreigner will seldom be accepted as part of the inner circle; he will almost always be an outsider looking in. |
from the U.S. Citizen Services, U. S. Embassy
http://seoul.usembassy.gov/cultural_pitfalls.html
| Quote: |
| "When they (Amerasians) are in Korea, many of them do hate Korea and the culture because they are hurt by the fact that they are not accepted by Korean society," said Amerasian Christian Academy director James Kang-McCann. |
Many Amerasians struggle with identity crisis as they feel the pull of two cultures
By Christina Ko, Seoul bureau, Stars and Stripes
http://ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/01/aug01/ed082001h.html
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| Although prejudices against biracial people are diminishing, the Confucian-inspired family registration system defines Lee's grandfather as her legal father, which makes the legal relationship between Lee and her mother that of "elder sister and younger sister."... The singer Sonya was brought up in the conservative city of Deagu.... Crying, she said, "My grandfather hit me and called me names. He was embarrassed by me. He used to say, 'What kind of ugly seed did you come from?'" |
Korean Biases Erode as Biracial Entertainers Succeed: LAT
Chosun Ilbo (April 8, 2004)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200408/200408080032.html
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| In Korea, where everybody has black eyes, straight black hair and yellow skin, biracial Koreans face discrimination because of their appearance, they look different.... With an increasing number of Koreans marrying non-Koreans, the number of biracial people is growing. But the inhospitality and discrimination against their children have not changed with the times, and Korea is still a country where biracial people face difficulties. |
Biracial People Face Discrimination in Korea
By Kim Rahn, Korea Times (May 20, 2005)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200505/kt2005052020230153460.htm
Just a drop of Korean blood enough for news media
by Brian Lee, JoongAng Daily (May 28, 2005)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200505/27/200505272042151879900091009101.html
Miguk Naemse - Smell of Americans
[Stone Mirror]
By David I. Steinberg, Korea Times (March 2, 2003)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/opinion/200303/kt2003030217021511600.htm |
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xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I am suspicious of anything that comes from the official US goverenment. The US government is one of the biggest disseminators of propaganda that exists especially with regard to expats living in a society. For example the State Department issues warnings against working as an English teacher in Korea. It's on their website. But, as I have said before I have never met any other teacher here who had anything more than a compliant regarding a matter that could not be resolved with a little negotiation. And when you take into consideration the number of expats living and working in Korea and the number of actual complaints, there are a far greater ratio of valid complaints by Americans living and working in America. What do the warnings really mean? Well it could be to disuade Americans from coming to Korea and exempting themselves form paying our good ol taxes back in the States on a years worth of employment. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| xingyiman wrote: |
| I am suspicious of anything that comes from the official US goverenment. The US government is one of the biggest disseminators of propaganda that exists especially with regard to expats living in a society. For example the State Department issues warnings against working as an English teacher in Korea. It's on their website. But, as I have said before I have never met any other teacher here who had anything more than a compliant regarding a matter that could not be resolved with a little negotiation. And when you take into consideration the number of expats living and working in Korea and the number of actual complaints, there are a far greater ratio of valid complaints by Americans living and working in America. What do the warnings really mean? Well it could be to disuade Americans from coming to Korea and exempting themselves form paying our good ol taxes back in the States on a years worth of employment. |
And I would say that the Canadian government is just as bad. The reason that embassies say that is because when they deal with expats, 99% of the time they only deal with expats who have been cheated. No teacher is going to walk into an embassy and complain, "My director is paying me too much." |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: |
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It is harder to make friends here if you stick to our own conceptions about friendship. It seems to take longer here to make lasting friends.
I have a select few close Korean friends (and a great family of in-laws) and it took a while to build up trust.
You also have to consider the status of most foreigners here. We tend to be here 1-2 years and move on. That makes it tough to establish a lasting friendship and I can understand why many Koreans would not invest in such a relationship. It is the same for some long timers here...many teachers come and go...this is not conducive to deep friendship.
RR has a point here (it had to happen!) about the inner circle thing. It takes a while to earn trust and be accepted. However, once that happens the friendship is rock solid. You also have to consider the source...it is the Canadian Embassy making a comment on the dynamics of friendships in Korea.
But for people who are planning on being around longer, it does make sense to be more selective. Enjoy the acquaintances for the good times they offer while keeping an eye out for those few who are true friendship material.
A pretty universal rule there.....it applies here too. |
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