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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: Quebec and UNESCO |
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I once had a conversation with a very nice Australian woman, who just couldn't grasp why Quebeckers carry Canadian passports. She had the idea that they should carry French passports, and there was just no explaining any other logic to her. (I think eventually I pointed out that Americans don't carry UK passports, despite speaking English, and then she got the idea).
Anyway, Mr. Stephen Harper seems hellbent on creating even more such confusion on the global stage.
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Prime Minister Stephen Harper is expected to announce Friday a deal that will see Quebec getting more of a prominent role on the world stage.
CTV News has learned that Harper and Quebec Premier Jean Charest will announce an agreement that will see Quebec get a special role as part of the Canadian delegation at UNESCO -- the United Nations Education, Science and Culture Organization.
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"It may not be something that means a lot to people in English Canada, but in Quebec, this is really important. And when this is announced . . . it's going to see those Tory numbers soar up again in Quebec even more," Fife said Thursday afternoon on CTV's Mike Duffy Live.
The Conservatives are enjoying a big surge in popular support in Quebec. According to a recent CROP-La Presse poll, Harper's Tories had 34 per cent support compared with 31 per cent for the Bloc Quebecois.
"Based on the CROP numbers, the Conservatives stand to win 40 seats in Quebec, and this kind of an issue with UNESCO and fulfilling this promise is going to really help Harper in Quebec. (On Friday), the Quebec papers will be full with this story," predicted Fife.
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Well, looks like Rene Levesque's beau risque is back in full swing, and the Conservatives didn't even have to elect a Quebec leader this time around. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 1:42 am Post subject: Re: Quebec and UNESCO |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
I once had a conversation with a very nice Australian woman, who just couldn't grasp why Quebeckers carry Canadian passports. She had the idea that they should carry French passports, and there was just no explaining any other logic to her. (I think eventually I pointed out that Americans don't carry UK passports, despite speaking English, and then she got the idea).
Anyway, Mr. Stephen Harper seems hellbent on creating even more such confusion on the global stage.
| Quote: |
Prime Minister Stephen Harper is expected to announce Friday a deal that will see Quebec getting more of a prominent role on the world stage.
CTV News has learned that Harper and Quebec Premier Jean Charest will announce an agreement that will see Quebec get a special role as part of the Canadian delegation at UNESCO -- the United Nations Education, Science and Culture Organization.
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| Quote: |
"It may not be something that means a lot to people in English Canada, but in Quebec, this is really important. And when this is announced . . . it's going to see those Tory numbers soar up again in Quebec even more," Fife said Thursday afternoon on CTV's Mike Duffy Live.
The Conservatives are enjoying a big surge in popular support in Quebec. According to a recent CROP-La Presse poll, Harper's Tories had 34 per cent support compared with 31 per cent for the Bloc Quebecois.
"Based on the CROP numbers, the Conservatives stand to win 40 seats in Quebec, and this kind of an issue with UNESCO and fulfilling this promise is going to really help Harper in Quebec. (On Friday), the Quebec papers will be full with this story," predicted Fife.
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Well, looks like Rene Levesque's beau risque is back in full swing, and the Conservatives didn't even have to elect a Quebec leader this time around. |
Actually as Mr. Fife points out, it's all about getting more seats in Quebec which is an absolute must for Mr. Harper. Ontario is pretty much a Liberal stronghold and by the time the next election rolls around a lot of people may have "forgotten" Adscam and the other scandals. With strong support in the West and plenty of support from Quebec (along with what supporters he has in Ontario) he might be able to scrape through with a majority government next time around. Nothing much to do with Rene Levesque at all. And anything that takes votes away from a separtist party is all right in my book. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Nothing much to do with Rene Levesque at all. |
I meant simply that any alliance between the Conservative Party and moderate nationalists in Quebec will be a throwback to Rene Levesque's endorsement of a similar alliance in the early 1980s. Though I think Levesque was more explicitly concerened with constitutional reform. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Quebec and UNESCO |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ...it's all about getting more seats in Quebec... ...And anything that takes votes away from a separtist party is all right in my book... |
Yes.
Principles and politics don't mix, unfortunately. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote:
...it's all about getting more seats in Quebec... ...And anything that takes votes away from a separtist party is all right in my book...
Yes.
Principles and politics don't mix, unfortunately. |
Actually, given the Conservatives(and especially Harper's) commitment to decentralization, I'd say in this instance principles and politics mix quite nicely. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: |
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I suppose there are many different ways of looking at this.
If it helps to make sense of my comment, I was thinking that this was somewhat against Harper's/Conservative principles in that it is an instance of granting Quebec another form of special status over and above what the other provinces have, which- in the long run- arguably strengthens Quebec's case for self-determination (seperation). |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: |
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If it helps to make sense of my comment, I was thinking that this was somewhat against Harper's/Conservative principles in that it is an instance of granting Quebec another form of special status over and above what the other provinces have, which- in the long run- arguably strengthens Quebec's case for self-determination (seperation).
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Yes, but...
I don't think too many anti-centralists in Alberta(for example) are gonna be outraged that Alberta isn't getting UNESCO status, because that sort of thing just isn't an issue for most of them. It's not like Albertans have a history of demanding a special deal with UNESCO.
But Harper will have to grant things to other provinces that would be roughly equivalent(in terms of importance) to what he grants to Quebec. Maybe give western farmers the right to opt out of the marketting boards, I dunno.
As for the separation bogeyman: I don't know how familiar you are with the Conservative "western alienation" crowd, but trust me: these guys don't give a toss whether Quebec stays or goes, as long as it doesn't effectt their financial well-being. But yeah, it might provoke some opposition from more moderate Conservatives if Harper's concessions are seen as paving the way for seperatism. Presumably, Harper figures he can maneouver tightrope. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
I don't think too many anti-centralists in Alberta(for example) are gonna be outraged that Alberta isn't getting UNESCO status, because that sort of thing just isn't an issue for most of them. It's not like Albertans have a history of demanding a special deal with UNESCO. |
Fair enough, but that sort feeds into what I was saying about politics vs principles- worrying about voter perceptions as opposed to principles (I'm just playing devil's advocate here, FWIW)
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| As for the separation bogeyman: I don't know how familiar you are with the Conservative "western alienation" crowd, but trust me: these guys don't give a toss whether Quebec stays or goes, as long as it doesn't effectt their financial well-being. |
Politically I'm sure this is true, but again, the principle thing- do they see Quebec having a right to separate, or at least reasonable grounds to make a good case for separation? Maybe they do.
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| But yeah, it might provoke some opposition from more moderate Conservatives if Harper's concessions are seen as paving the way for seperatism. Presumably, Harper figures he can maneouver tightrope. |
My original comment about politics and principles I guess could be re-tooled to be something like- no matter how good or bad a move by a politician is you can find people to praise it and condemn it... or something to that effect.
As for Quebec having a special role in a Cdn UNESCO delegation, I have no problems with it (I probably should have said that somewhere earlier), just interested to see how the various players will spin it, whether for or against. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: |
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As for the separation bogeyman: I don't know how familiar you are with the Conservative "western alienation" crowd, but trust me: these guys don't give a toss whether Quebec stays or goes, as long as it doesn't effectt their financial well-being.
Politically I'm sure this is true, but again, the principle thing- do they see Quebec having a right to separate, or at least reasonable grounds to make a good case for separation? Maybe they do.
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I don't think they give a lot of deep thought to the philosophical questions underlining self-determination. Basically, these guys want more power for the provinces. That's their basic principle. And if granting more power to the provinces increases the likelihood that Quebec will separate, I think most of them would think that's a risk well worth taking. |
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