Korean Job Discussion Forums

[sundubuman]

here's a letter and response from the man who started the iceagenow website.


I recently received an e-mail from Ruth O�Donnell asking how I explain the
warming in the Arctic Circle . I'd like to answer her questions.

Ruth said that she owns my tapes and reads my website often, but is becoming
uncomfortable with the fact that I seem to ignore a lot of evidence that points to
global warming.

�This is some of the best reporting in the world,� Ruth continued (referring to an
article in the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/21/AR2006032101722_ 2.html?referrer=email)

�This is not some quack spouting off about global warming. It's the most detailed
example I've seen of some of the effects of the melting ice in the Arctic . People are
losing their way of life, animals are dying, and things like HORNETS are appearing
in the Arctic Circle . Because it's getting warmer and the ice is melting.� �I think it's very hard to dispute this kind of factual evidence.� �With more and more stories
about the effects of global warming in the press, in order to preserve the credibility
of your theory, I would like to see you mention -- and deal with -- some of the
facts about recent global warming that are being reported on your website.

�I do love your reports, but I really would hate for anyone to think that you're
totally ignoring the existence of global warming. We have enough politicians who
want to do that.�

Respectfully, Ruth O'Donnell

��������������������
And here's my answer:
................................................................................

Dear Ruth,

Thank you for a very thoughtful e-mail. With all of the reports about warming in
the Arctic , and the photos, and the anecdotes, it�s hard to deny that something is
going on.

However, jumping to the conclusion that these changes are the result of human
activity � as so many newspaper articles and TV shows imply - is a very big leap.
(Besides that, I don�t think the Washington Post always has the most objective
reporting in the world.)

First, let me say that I think humans have a negligible effect, if any, on the Arctic
climate. How could they? I doubt that there are many more humans living in the
Arctic right now than there were a hundred years ago.

My contention is that any Arctic warming is caused by underwater volcanic
activity.

This scenario became much more plausible after German-American researchers
discovered more hydrothermal activity at the Gakkel Ridge than anyone had ever
imagined.

According to the Max Planck Institute, �The Gakkel ridge is a gigantic volcanic
mountain chain stretching beneath the Arctic Ocean . With its deep valleys 5,500
meters beneath the sea surface and its 5,000 meter- high summits, the Gakkel
Ridge is far mightier than the Alps .�

Two research icebreakers, the USCGC Healy from USA and the German PFS Polarstern, recently joined forces in the international expedition AMORE (Arctic
Mid-Ocean Ridge Expedition). In attendance were scientists from the Max Planck
Institute for Chemistry and other international institutions.

The scientists had expected that the Gakkel ridge would exhibit "anemic"
magmatism. Instead, they found "surprisingly strong magmatic activity in the West
and the East of the ridge and one of the str ongest hydrothermal activities ever seen
at mid-ocean ridges."

"The Gakkel ridge extends about 1800 kilometers beneath the Arctic Ocean from
north of Greenland to Siberia , and is the northernmost portion of the mid-ocean
ridge system."

To their surprise, the researchers found high levels of volcanic activity. Indeed,
magmatism was "dramatically" higher than expected.

Hydrothermal hot springs on the seafloor were also far more abundant than
predicted. "We expected this to be a hydrothermally dead ridge, and almost every
time our water measurement instrument came up, they showed evidence of hydrothermal activity, and once we even 'saw' an active hot spring on the sea
floor," said Dr. Jonathan Snow, the leader of the research group from the Max
Planck Institute. (This is also on my website at
http://www.iceagenow.com/Ocean_Warming.htm)

Look at what they said!

*

"surprisingly strong magmatic activity"
*

"the strongest hydrothermal activities ever
seen at mid-ocean ridges"
*

"magmatism "dramatically" higher than
expected"
*

"Hydrothermal hot springs on the seafloor
far more abundant than predicted"
*

"the Gakkel Ridge is far mightier than the Alps "

No wonder the ice is melting! No wonder the Arctic is growing warmer!

As far as I�m concerned Ruth, everything that we see happening in the Arctic
is the result of natural forces. The oceans have warmed prior to previous ice
ages, and they�re doing it again. It�s all part of the ice-age cycle, and I think
it is signaling our entry into the next ice age.

Sincerely,
Robert Felix

[sundubuman]

In previous "unenlightened times", changes in weather, droughts, failed crops, plagues, floods, etc. were often blamed on some individual or group, often leading to human sacrifice.

The left is continuing that grand tradition today, castigating Americans, Republicans etc., for everything potentially negative that is happening in the world.

As we type, a volcane is erupting on Java, days after a major earthquake near Tonga. There is increasing tectonic and volcanic activity throughout the Pacific yet the indignant environmental leftists have already decided that the culprit is American Republicans. Let's see, if volcanoes erupt unerneath the Arctic Ocean....

said ocean will

A. get hotter
B. see less ice
C. be proof of American neglect of the global environment
D. All of the above

take your pick.

Who is it that has their head buried in the sand????

[sundubuman]

and from the Indian Ocean

2 Dec 05 - An enormous hydrothermal "megaplume" found in the Indian
Ocean serves as a dramatic reminder that underwater volcanoes likely play
an important role in shaping Earth's ocean systems, scientists report.

The plume, which stretches some 43.5 miles (70 kilometers) long, appears to
be active on a previously unseen scale.

"This thing is at least 10 times�or possibly 20 times�bigger than anything of its kind that's been seen before," said Bramley Murton of the British National Oceanography Centre.

Scientists reported the finding last week at the fall meeting of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) in San Francisco . Researchers also announced newly discovered deep-sea hydrothermal fields in the Arctic Ocean and the south Atlantic .

The appearance of hydrothermal vents around the world suggests that they are a far more common part of the ocean system than once believed and could be a major influence on circulation patterns and ocean chemistry.

"I'd be surprised if in the next five years we didn't experience a mini-revolution in terms of finding these [fields] in places where they are not supposed to exist," said geophysicist Robert Reves-Sohn of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

Hydrothermal vents are volcanic hotspots that emit gasses and mineral-enriched water as hot as 760�F (400�C).

Megaplumes like the one found in the Indian Ocean are probably caused by undersea volcanic eruptions, though scientists aren't yet certain.

"Once formed they can possibly hang around for years," Murton said. The heat from such events could have a dramatic effect on ocean circulation, which plays a role in determining Earth's climate.

"The energy content is an order of magnitude greater [than ordinary plumes], and the thermal power may be many orders of magnitude greater," Murton said.

"A normal hydrothermal vent might produce something like 500 megawatts, while this is producing 100,000 megawatts. It's like an atom bomb down there.�

Regular hydrothermal fields stir the water for only a few hundred meters (about a thousand feet) above the ocean floor. "But these megaplumes can reach a column of 1,000 to 1,500 meters [3,280 to 4,920 feet], so it reaches right up into the midwater," he said.

But even the Indian Ocean megaplume may be small compared to larger underwater eruptions that have as yet gone undetected.

"We know when we look at the ocean floor that there have been much larger eruptions, so we can only speculate about what magnitude of event plumes would come from those."

The new data on hydrothermal fields and megaplumes underscores the fact that volcanic activity on the ocean floor remains a largely mysterious phenomenon.

"Ninety percent of the Earth's volcanic activity takes place underwater," Murton said. "Just because we can't see it doesn't mean it's not there."

[sundubuman]

this is definitely being caused by SUV-driving americans,

[Bulsajo]

Experiments to be conducted in the Arctic as well as the Antarctic during IPY (International Polar Year) scheduled for 2007-08 should provide lots of supporting evidence one way or another. It'll be a very important year for Arctic nations and Arctic science.

http://www.ipy.org/


If the world hasn't exploded before the data from the experiments has been analyzed, we should a pretty clear idea of what's going by the end of the decade.

In other news, the polar bear has been put on the endangered species list:

http://www.nunatsiaq.com/news/climate/60505_01.html

[rapier]

This site is a proponent of the increased seismic activity = global warming

http://www.michaelmandeville.com/polarmotion/spinaxis/vortex_correlations2.htm

But- I don't believe global seismic activity has increased significantly or enough to have caused climate change that we have witnessed over the past 30 years. A third of the Arctic has vanished! There have always been ocean vents and volcanoes: nothing new, we've just gotten better at finding and measuring them. Besides.. its already proven that volcanic activity has no long-lasting impact on the atmoshere. not unless it was on a much larger scale. see;

http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/Resources/gcc/2-6-3.html

volcanic activity has a cooling effect: how then do you account for the arctic and the worlds climate warming at an unprecedented rate? we've had the 6 hottest years on historical record within the past decade alone.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1282246.html

[jinju]

No, it wont. The Earth will be fine.

[rapier]

[Captain Corea]

Thanks for posting those pics up..

they give a good visual to it.

[jinju]

The Earth will be fine.

Look up the word :cycle

No, not the verb "to cycle".

[jinju]

And how many of those photos were photoshopped?

[sundubuman]

look at this image, which is quite scienific, and see if you can understand what's happening with our global climate....

[Privateer]

[jinju]

[khyber]

thanks for that graph sundubu!
That's a GREAT graph that shows the correlation between CO2 concentration and global warming!

And it was said earlier but it should be noted that these "geothermal vent discoveries" are being severely misrepresented by you and your links.

These "new discoveries" are presented as "NEW factors contributing to changes we now see" yet they make no mention of how long they have ACTUALLY been in existence. Don't claim it's seismic activity that is creating the warming we see when you don't even know how long it's been around.