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The Great Toad
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
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 Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject: Errors in Korean Textbooks, "Were I wrong?" Am I w |
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Well my principal wanted all the teen lasses to learn to read English, so the teachers selected Beauty and the Beast Grade 1 Beginner by the prestigious Darakwon company
http://www.darakwon.co.kr/
So here's an excerpt from the book in chapter two:
_______________________________
Next to the fireplace was a table. On the table were a roasted chicken with potatoes, cake, and hot coffee.
The food looked so delicious, and the castle looked so warm.
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I think that it should be on the table "was" not "were" because "the food looked" tense does not mesh with it I think it is present perfect tense and were of course is past tense. But I might be wrong were I a fool who looked foolish. Were taht possible as I am the Great and Clever Toad!
Anyhow, I have read and reread the first two chapters aloud soooooo many times. I only wish they would prefer reading by group / paragraph but the students and teachers want me to read then they repeat... 
It is mildly entertaining making fierce Beast voices, sedate narrator, whiney elder sister and pristine Beauty voices but still... Ah well anyhow my point is that the grammar in the book is wrong, and I am thus proven more clever then yet another Korean Textbook.
(on the first or so chapter of the Grade 2 Middle School book, page 14, "I got 100 on the test." ... no article hmmm what lame proofreading. Besides the intro picture page which misspells "spaghetti") |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Toad.
You are not talking grammar. No. Please no.
Do not bait me like this. |
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Kyrei
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Errors in Korean Textbooks, "Were I wrong?" Am |
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Wow, where to start with this...
| The Great Toad wrote: |
Next to the fireplace was a table. On the table were a roasted chicken with potatoes, cake, and hot coffee.
The food looked so delicious, and the castle looked so warm. |
Technically "on the table were" is correct because the subject is a collection of several nouns thereby making it plural. That being said, however, we normally say "on the table was" in this situation because the first noun in that subject is singular. Grammarians will argue over this as will many on this board I am sure.
| The Great Toad wrote: |
| I think that it should be on the table "was" not "were" because "the food looked" tense does not mesh with it |
umm.. all I can say to that is "Huh"???   I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. They are all the past tense... I.. I.. I just... don't get it.
| The Great Toad wrote: |
| I think it is present perfect tense and were of course is past tense. |
Wow.. you couldn't be more off base here. The perfect tense is made up of 'Have + past particle" (e.g. "have gone" or "has been"). It is simply the past simple tense. "On the table have been" would be the present perfect tense and under no circumstances that I can come up with on the spot would it be appropriate to use it here.
| The Great Toad wrote: |
| Besides the intro picture page which misspells "spaghetti") |
I am curious how they spelled it, unless you are saying what you have written there is mispelt? |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 1:51 am Post subject: Re: Errors in Korean Textbooks, "Were I wrong?" Am |
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| The Great Toad wrote: |
So here's an excerpt from the book in chapter two:
_______________________________
Next to the fireplace was a table. On the table were a roasted chicken with potatoes, cake, and hot coffee.
The food looked so delicious, and the castle looked so warm.
__________________________________
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I agree that "were" is wrong.
"On the table were a roasted chicken with potatoes, cake, and hot coffee."
The way the sentence is constructed, it is not saying "There is a roasted chicken, potatoes, cake, and hot coffee on the table." It is saying "There is a roasted chicken with potatoes, cake, and hot coffee on the table." So the chicken is on the table, but the potatoes, cake and hot coffee are with the chicken, not on the table (although they are).
I also have a problem with the overuse of the word "so." |
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The Great Toad
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
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hmmm well I was just trying to memberz all the grammar r00lz. I did not say I got an "A" in University Grammar. But if you all check a second year Korean Ju Hackyo text book you'll see I'm right and that they should have hired me to proof it, as I can prove anything with my doom writ to be as I say it. I still think the Beauty and Beast Book is reele wrong though. I forgot all my English and Grammairain stuff in Korea, maybe it was the crashes or all the mind numbing reps I had to do sayin the same words over. (I know I have them do pairs and groups too) I still feel shame when I memberz how my students would say the line from the textbook:
How about parking over there?
It is bad enough that I have all these real life elmo female clones poking and pinching my belly, and grabbing my arm, it turns me red when they all repeat the above with "f" sounds. But, I still recomend you all try the "Have you seen Uranus?" question on them. Then get them to look up the words. |
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Yesterday
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Land of the Morning DongChim (Kancho)
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the books I use have wrong English - just yesterday I was reading a story in "Spotlight Challenge 3" to my students and one of the sentences says "How did she get wet? She fell on the puddle".....
I am sure it should be "in" not "on"... Spotlight Challenge has many mistakes in each unit....
then in the students science textbooks - (Mc Graw/Hill & Foresman) - this same mistake is made repeatedly throughout the book...
"Some properties of matter are shape, size, and color".
I was taught at school to NEVER put a comma in front of an "and"... however McGraw/Hill and Foresman have done it throughout all of their books....
please let me know if I am wrong... |
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gdimension
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Yesterday wrote: |
Most of the books I use have wrong English - just yesterday I was reading a story in "Spotlight Challenge 3" to my students and one of the sentences says "How did she get wet? She fell on the puddle".....
I am sure it should be "in" not "on"... Spotlight Challenge has many mistakes in each unit....
then in the students science textbooks - (Mc Graw/Hill & Foresman) - this same mistake is made repeatedly throughout the book...
"Some properties of matter are shape, size, and color".
I was taught at school to NEVER put a comma in front of an "and"... however McGraw/Hill and Foresman have done it throughout all of their books....
please let me know if I am wrong... |
Because I'm teaching a writing class, I recently looked up the usage of the comma. Here's what I found: McGraw/Hill is correct, at least according to this website. |
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seoulkitchen
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Location: Hub of Asia, my ass!
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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"Some properties of matter are shape, size, and color".
They way I remember it, in the above example each item is seperate.
"Some properties of matter are shape, size and color".
In this one shape is seperate, but size and color are together, and you would need one more and:
"Some properties of matter are A, B, and C and D".
Also, I have noticed about that was vs. were thing, Koreans make that mistake a lot. In fact, their persistent insistence had me doubting my insanity aout that one.
Ex.
There was a cat, a dog, and two mice in the bowl.
They insist it should be:
There were a cat, a dog, and two mice in the bowl.
(they say that since there were multiple objects, the verb should be plural. I seem to remember being taught that since the first object is singular, the verb should be singular.) Which is correct?
By the wayToad,
I don't mind it when you write like you talk (well, not too much at least), but I sure hope you don't talk like you write. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Errors in Korean Textbooks, "Were I wrong?" Am |
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| Kyrei wrote: |
Wow, where to start with this...
| The Great Toad wrote: |
Next to the fireplace was a table. On the table were a roasted chicken with potatoes, cake, and hot coffee.
The food looked so delicious, and the castle looked so warm. |
Technically "on the table were" is correct because the subject is a collection of several nouns thereby making it plural. That being said, however, we normally say "on the table was" in this situation because the first noun in that subject is singular. Grammarians will argue over this as will many on this board I am sure. |
No, technically it isn't correct since the verb's number is determined not by whether one or more than one item follows it in the list but by the number of the following noun, i.e. whether it's 'a chicken' (singular) or 'chickens' (plural).
e.g. There was a dog, a cat, and a chicken in the yard.
There were dogs, cats, and chickens in the yard. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Errors in Korean Textbooks, "Were I wrong?" Am |
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| Kyrei wrote: |
| Technically "on the table were" is correct because the subject is a collection of several nouns thereby making it plural. |
Come on....
There were Kyrei with the Great Toad.
There was Kyrei with the Great Toad.
I know it's a cliche to say, "Are you really an English teacher?", but I mean WTF? This is basic grammar. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Errors in Korean Textbooks, "Were I wrong?" Am |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Kyrei wrote: |
| Technically "on the table were" is correct because the subject is a collection of several nouns thereby making it plural. |
Come on....
There were Kyrei with the Great Toad.
There was Kyrei with the Great Toad.
I know it's a cliche to say, "Are you really an English teacher?", but I mean WTF? This is basic grammar. |
Hmm, yeah, what I said, only more pointed.  |
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Kyrei
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Errors in Korean Textbooks, "Were I wrong?" Am |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Kyrei wrote: |
| Technically "on the table were" is correct because the subject is a collection of several nouns thereby making it plural. |
Come on....
There were Kyrei with the Great Toad.
There was Kyrei with the Great Toad.
I know it's a cliche to say, "Are you really an English teacher?", but I mean WTF? This is basic grammar. |
Dogbert.. I am a fan, but you are wrong here. There was no 'with' in the original comment. "There was Kyrei with the Great Toad" is correct... However, in the original the subject was a list of nouns, thereby making it plural, and I said technically it was correct.
Think of it this way:
1) A roast chicken, potatos, and hot coffee are on the table.
2) On the table there are a roast chicken, potatos, and hot coffee.
While 2) is technically correct, we say "On the table there is a roast chicken, potatos, and hot coffee" because it seems easier to make the verb agree with the first noun in the series, which is singular. Adding "with" to the sentence, as RACETRAITOR has done, changes the equation completely, but that was not in the original question.
On a final note, I am rather surprised that you would throw the "Are you an English teacher" at me in this situation, since I think it would be best thrown elsewhere in this thread... |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Errors in Korean Textbooks, "Were I wrong?" Am |
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| Kyrei wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| Kyrei wrote: |
| Technically "on the table were" is correct because the subject is a collection of several nouns thereby making it plural. |
Come on....
There were Kyrei with the Great Toad.
There was Kyrei with the Great Toad.
I know it's a cliche to say, "Are you really an English teacher?", but I mean WTF? This is basic grammar. |
Dogbert.. I am a fan, but you are wrong here. There was no 'with' in the original comment. "There was Kyrei with the Great Toad" is correct... However, in the original the subject was a list of nouns, thereby making it plural, and I said technically it was correct. |
What do you mean there was no "with"?
The OP stated:
"On the table were a roasted chicken with potatoes, cake, and hot coffee."
His original post does not seem to have been edited.
Or are you saying that there have to be more than two nouns for something to be plural? In that case:
"There were Kyrei with the Great Toad, Dogbert, and Jongnoguru."
"There was Kyrei with the Great Toad, Dogbert, and Jongnoguru." |
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The Great Toad
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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I dont' know real grammar stuff, but I can quote most of the lines Beavis has ever said in his life. Ahhhh anyhow I hope your not mad at each other because of calling each other uncool Grammar names. Maybe when I go home I'll ask some English Experts or something, I could always research my Little Brown's Handbook and try to memberz all thee boring Grammar stuff I done learnt in Coolage. But, please do not hurt each others inner childz over some Grammar ideas.
It sounds dum though to me. Like
On the table were... plural verb and singular noun not agreezz
On the table was... single verb and single noun dooz agreezz
SO anyhow in conclusion don't be hurtful and a doggin all cuz u all knowz da biz bomb bitty bomb Engrish guy is me alone. If you want to seess me the bestest sansinnimbimbibop I'm in da current issue of Jeju Education mag (funny but no one here is treatin me like more of a star...) |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yesterday wrote: |
"Some properties of matter are shape, size, and color".
I was taught at school to NEVER put a comma in front of an "and"... however McGraw/Hill and Foresman have done it throughout all of their books....
please let me know if I am wrong... |
It can officially go either way. I prefer leaving the comma in. |
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