Korean Job Discussion Forums

[PRagic]

Think again if you are thinking of working for YBM. Yes, they are the biggest and they may be a 'safe way' to come into the market, but they are using newbies and seem to know it. The following is the actual e-mail that I sent to the head of personnel for YBM upon seeing one particular ad with below average pay.

My e-mai:

How many stay past 2 years? That's the test. Can you retain people that want to be in Korea long term, or do you ride the supply of college loan debt carriers? I don't think you are great at all. A good business plan for doing business in Korea in an industry spawned from education institutional ineptitude, but nothing special.

I know you are the largest company. You are not competitive because as the largest company, you are more than able to offer more competitive wages, yet you do not. You get away with this because there are people coming into the country that weigh the lower wages against employment safety. Proud of that? Fine. Ethical? Hardly. Many a company has wrung its employees out and boasted of profit at the same time. Your's is not the first. Do you hire only people with B.Ed.s and certification to teach Korean kids? Nope. Now THAT would be something to be proud of! Do you pay top dollar to recruit the very best and experienced teachers? Nope? Again, I'd have to take my hat off to you if you did that.

There are loads of web pages out there, and a ton of chat boards that allow people to gather information before they come to Korea. It's not me they are listening to, but a large number of people that have been here over 10 years and have the time and resources to try saving people some of the pain that so many run into. What do they find out about you? Great place to work while you find a better job for your future in Korea. Word on the street is that only the desparate and the lazy stay their next year with YBM. That's something to be proud of?

Are you now hiring for Enlish camps, too? What a scheme that is! And the word is all over the place that they are aweful places to work. Again, you can bank on the newbies. Congrats.

_____

The ACTUAL RESPONSE from:

Benjamin Han
Personnel Coordinator
YBM Education HR Division

So what are you going to do about it? hahahhahahha

____________________________

If you are going to come to Korea, know this: Hakwons are paying more because there is demand. You can make more because now because the Korean government wants to pump hundreds of teachers into their public schools, which will put a drain on the institutes. Take your time, and take your pick. Some of the biggest chains offer some of the best salaries; YBM does not, and you'll basically be a babysitter. Go right for a public school job if you can and would rather; they offer better vacations.

If you have experience, feel free to chime in on this one, be it about hakwons, public schools, or universities in Korea.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

I love how they list a 'competitive' salary of 1.8-2.0. Only someone completely ignorant of the job market here would fall for that, but then I guess those are the people they want.

They should save themselves all the trouble. They should just ask a telemarketing company that sells abdominal excercise equipment to people who want to lose weight, purchase their sucker list, and start phoning people who have degrees.

[RachaelRoo]

I don't understand your objection to what YMB does (hiring newbies for less pay). They aren't really a school, they are a business. Their goal is profit, not quality education, and both teachers and parents need to understand this.
Now, if the customers (parents) were calling up the school regularly and saying "I am going to/considering moving my child to XYZ academy because the foreign teachers there have more experience and qualifications" then YMB would begin to pay more for experienced teachers.
This is probably not happening. Therefore, it makes business sense for YMB to try to save $200/month on a teacher's wages by hiring the most naive and inexperienced newbie they can find, and they have no reason to care that a newb is likely to provide a lower quality education. It doesn't affect their profits.

In the system we live in, this is how it is supposed to work.

If anyone reading this is considering coming to Korea to teach in a hagwon, please know that it's really just a business and not a school you will be working for. A business' primary and only goal is profit for the ownership. Keep this in mind and you will have a much better time at work. Don't come here with any idealistic illusions that someone would actually open a hagwon for the joy of helping children learn English, instead of for money.

[Mr. BlackCat]

I don't find what YBM does unethical. I work at one of their schools and this is my first year. I conciously decided to take the lower pay for the security of the big company for my first year, I wasn't fooled into it.

That's not to say that I don't think YBM works their teachers harder than at most other hakwons (through talking with other teachers) and pays them less for it. There's lots of extra unpaid work at my school. But its one year and now I know better. The job isn't bad, actually its pretty good. I just know I could make more for less work elsewhere. And now that I'm in Korea I can be much more picky and assertive my next contract, which will likely not be with this company.

Also, I find it somewhat ignorant to assume that everyone at this company is a bad teacher, or desperate or something. I know several great teachers at my school alone and I had some experience myself before I got here. Its not that we had no other options, its that we wanted security our first year here. I personally know some horrible teachers (or I can assume as much from their personality) that work at other more 'reputable' places and earn more. There's a teacher shortage which means there are bad apples all over this plantattion.

I know what you're saying. But don't you think all these companies are laughing at us on some level. At least this guy was honest.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

If YBM-ECC called themselves a 'good business' I wouldn't have any problems. Referring to themselves as a 'good school' is merely hoping for gullibility.

[PRagic]

I heartily agree with all posts so far. Unfortunately, these 'institutes', and especially the ones that take in kiddies, DO bill themselves as learning institutions. Korea has gotten to the point where all English skills are learned outside of formal learning institutions, even at the collegiate level.

I hope nobody actaully working for YBM in their first year takes offense. It is understandable to take security over pay and contact hours for your first year.

Yes, on some level, I am sure that the hakwon managment is 'laughing at us...' Not myself in particular as I don't work for one. Once you get here and work for one of these places, know that you should not be lulled into the 'now you are a professional educator' farse. You are, or will be, a low paid facilitator working in a multi-million dollar industry. Take it for what it is, and you can enjoy yourself. Buy into the guild trip, and you'll get burned out.

[plattwaz]

I worked for a YBM-ECC in my first year, and I had always thought that I was underpaid compared to other academies....I just saw the basic numbers: I was paid a base of 1.6m and most other jobs ads were at 1.8 at that time (2.0 was rare, especially for someone with no experience; anyone I knew working for that much as a base salary was in a school that paid late, or gave them the shaft on severance). This was in 2002.

Anyway my contract was 1.6 for 90 hours, which works out to be 17,777 per hour. Overtime was paid at 15,000 per 40 minute class (22,500 per hour). For a 120 hour month, my salary thus worked out to be 2,275,000.

If you look now, most jobs offer a base contract of 120 hours, and the average pay is between 2.0 and 2.2 for that. At 2.1, 120 hours only works out to be 17,500 per hour.

So, 4 years ago, YBM was beating that. Yes, the guaranteed minimum number of hours was lower, whereas in a place that now offers 2.2 for 120 hours, if you are only scheduled for 100 hours, you would still get that higher base pay, but it still does NOT translate to YBM paying lowest on the pay scale.

It makes them competitive, in my opinion. Even now, 1.6 for 90 hours would be quite competitive, especially for a newbie with no experience.

[PRagic]

Some of the bigger chains are paying more, and they were then, too. Wages fluctuate, and you have to get the best deal you can. Personally, I can't imagine working 120 contact hours of teaching, ESPECIALLY on 40-45 minute classes...THAT is a lot of classes.

Also, you have to understand that they structure the pay scale like that so that people will work the overtime. Most of the newbies are here to pay off loans and get out of dodge with as much in hand as possible in a year. This saves the instiution from hiring more workers, paying more taxes and providing more housing and insurance coverage. They win, you don't.

Glad you had a good first year.

[Southern Drawl]

PRagic,

Why do you say that "They win and you don't"?

I've done the 120 hours per week at hogwons and I feel that I won. And I'm sure that many other teachers feel the same. It's about being realistic. It doesn't take a newbie who doesn't know anything about Korea to long to figure things out. If someone is a temporary teacher in Korea just planning to stay a couple of years to rake in some money then they can do it at a hogwon like YBM. Sure, they could pay the teacher more. But as long as the teacher is meeting or exceeding their financial goals then there is no problem. It's about perspective. They are using me and I'm using them. They don't expect me to stay very long and I don't want to stay very long. The English education industry in Korea is built around the temporary teacher.

For those who want to stay longer they can "win" even further. They can use their hogwon experience as a stepping stone to get a better job like at a University with fewer teaching hours and more vacation. This is what I did. I don't regret my time at a hogwon. I feel that I won.

But isn't this what capitalism is all about anyway?

And yes I know that there are some hogwons that pay more than YBM.
You can make up any difference with a private or two or yet again do a year at YBM and go work at a higher paying hogwon.

[PRagic]

Your last comment nailed the point. Do a year there and get out. I'd still suggest going for a different chain that pays better.

Most of the people I know teaching young kids wish they weren't. I wonder if all the parents sending their kids there know this, and the fact that few if any of the teachers are trained to teach kids.

And the term 'rake in money' should never be used in conjunction with hakwon jobs. The exception would be teachers teaching large, popular classes on a percentage basis as those people make some serious money.

[crazylemongirl]

This is captalism in action folks. We can choose where to work. If some people want the security of YBM for lower money then they'll work there. If they want more money for bigger risk they'll work someone else. What's the big deal? No one is forcing you or anyone else to work at YBM. If you don't want to work for them, then don't.

[flotsam]

[Don Gately]

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[flotsam]