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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
This sounds like some time-warped debate between Kahlil Gibran and Pat Buchanan. |
It's funny and sad at the same time. At least we never have to worry about wondering where the extremes lie. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: |
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If BigVerne and Company are really concerned about the UK being over-run by religious fanatics, they should fight tooth and nail to uphold the rule of law.
But if the law works against the interests of the people, as it so clearly is, then it should be changed. Moreover, you are acting as if foreigners have the same rights and responsibilities as British citizens. They do not and as such, there is no danger to the liberties of British citizens if the rights of foreigners to trials, appeals and lawyers are curtailed.
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Even if one particular law is working against the interests of the British people, that doesn't mean that it should just be ignored. Because a situation where you say that it's okay to ignore laws that you don't like is not going to benefit the British people.
And it doesn't matter whether the people affected are British or not. If the law says "non-British people should be treated in such and such a way by the British government", then anyone commited to the rule of law should uphold that. That doesn't mean you can't lobby to get the law changed. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| If the law says "non-British people should be treated in such and such a way by the British government", then anyone commited to the rule of law should uphold that. |
Yes, but they also need to balance that against their duty to protect the British public. This most recent example is just one of a many where the judiciary have put the rights of criminals before those of the vast majority of British citizens. It is not just the human rights act that is the problem, but the interpretation of that act by the judiciary. Other European countries are affected by the same legislation, yet do not seem to reach the same absurd decisions. It would appear that the British legal establishment is far removed from reality. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
Oh My God!!
I won't even bother pasting and cutting and all that jazz........
I DO NOT believe one should just let open the borders and let everyone in.....I didn't say that. Please read more carefully, please be prepared to not assume, as so many do in this world. Assuming, they are all just desperate criminals etc...I was talking of this particular case and the desperation well unveiled within and the other actors involved........
Without digressing into the merits of immigration and how it creates a "better world", I would ask you to think about the option that, the "harsh realities" you talk about, are all of your own making.
The world won't go to hell if we help some others, Britain won't be filled with "Pakis"or"Jamaicans", no matter your fears. Things, life will go on..... Let me suggest that the fears you have be dealt with an eradicated. Try traveling,and not sanctimoniously for $$$ but into the heart of a country with no way out. Give of yourself. Immigrate. You will become a better man. Leave your tea and biscuits and white gloves at home.......
As for the comments about "hippies" etc....that just makes me proud. A very famous conservative commentator once remarked that when you speak the truth; comments, labeling are about all the other guys can throw at you.............
I am compassionate in my own way, my own means. I believe in the power of the small thing, a smile, a touch, a thought.............you have the big,thick skin............maybe we all are turning back into reptiles......?????
DD |
You are, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most unbelievable, motherfu$king pretentious poster I have ever come across.
You clown, you don't have the keys to spiritual bliss. If you did you surely wouldn't be on Dave's with the rest of us unenlightened beings.
Good god you are condescending!
You are just some dude/girl who is on a massive ego trip and stuck in an era that you never lived.
Back to the Hakwon, Cowboy! |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
Blair signed up to the Human Rights Act in 1998. So, let's not pretend that the UK would be some kind of tyranny without it. We seemed to be doing fine before it was incorporated into British law. |
Way to completely miss the point, and in doing so, misrepresent. You're the only one here cheering for tyranny by suggesting the rule of law should be trumped by your sense of outrage. And if you mean the Human Rights Act enacted in 1998 to allow the ECHR to function in English courts - then you really need to say so.
So then we can be clear about which act is at fault. The Immigration Tribunal convened under the Human Rights Act decided that the hijackers shouldn't be returned to Afghanistan. Protecting them against torture and risk of death. Didn't say, or mean they can live free and clear in En-ger-lund, because they were jailed for the hijacking.
The English Common Law - nothing to do with the Human Rights Act, or the European Convention of Human Rights, or Tony Blair, or his wife - failed in it's procedure so that an appeal was upheld and they were freed.
| bigverne wrote: |
But if the law works against the interests of the people, as it so clearly is, then it should be changed. |
The judiciary functions in the interest of the people by replacing angry mobs with pitchforks and torches meting out justice. They do the job of dealing with crime and punishment so that people don't need to worry about people like Biggy V and his ilk running around with nooses - deciding who needs to go. So having the law working in England with the occasional c*ck up is a lot better than not having it at all.
| bigverne wrote: |
Moreover, you are acting as if foreigners have the same rights and responsibilities as British citizens. They do not and as such, there is no danger to the liberties of British citizens if the rights of foreigners to trials, appeals and lawyers are curtailed. |
Ah....
So finally we really get to the heart of it. Foreigners. Us and them. They shoudn't have the rights we do. Well mate the Sun and the BNP are doing their work well. Just answer me this ...
Why shouldn't foreigners have the same rights?? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Why shouldn't foreigners have the same rights?? |
I don't know why you are reacting as if I had said something controversial, because this is simply the law in most countries. Foreigners have not paid tax or contributed to the nation, and do not share in the rights, responsibilities and benefits that accrue to citizens. Once foreigners obtain residency or citizenship, of course they have the same rights as the natives. For people who have just landed on our shores that is not the case, as it is in most countries in the world.
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| So having the law working in England with the occasional c*ck up is a lot better than not having it at all. |
It is more than the occasional cockup, as manifested by this latest absurd decision. It is time for a review of how human rights laws are interpreted, leading to a balance in favour of public security and safety. This would mean returning terrorists and criminals to their home nations, even if they were in danger. It should not be our responsibility to settle them. Also, don't try to portray me as someone who wants to institute mob justice. I just want a justice system that represents the wishes of the majority of British people, and not the liberal whims of our judiciary. |
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