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C.M.
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Location: Gangwondo
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 Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: Public school vs. Hagwon |
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| I think it's fair to say public school positions are better than Hagwon gigs. What I would like to know is why. What is it, exactly, that makes public schools a better place to work? Hagwon work can be debilitating; the unruliness, the lack of a proper curriculum, the emphasis on games, the business oriented approach to education...I find that all this saps the spirit and lends to hagwon teaching a certain quality of pointlessness. Hagwons seem to be horrible, terrible meat grinders. How is it different at Public schools? |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| There are like 14 kabillion threads on this. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| the unruliness, the lack of a proper curriculum, the emphasis on games, the business oriented approach to education...I find that all this saps the spirit and lends to hagwon teaching a certain quality of pointlessness. |
Some of the differences:
a) Instead of 8 unruly middle schoolers, you can have 20, 30 even 40 unruly middle schoolers in one room.
b) You can find yourself locked in tandem with the Korean grammar based cirriculum where the teacher translates every sentence into Korean and there are no grammar exercises.
c) You can be given your only education objective: Make English fun.
Some positive differences:
a) Pay is on time.
b) Benefits like insurance and severence are not normally a problem in the public schools.
c) Working hours are almost always between 8 and 5 (roughly), so evenings rather than early afternoons, are free. |
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Pateach
Joined: 11 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Still best for a "newbie?" |
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| I am applying to teach in both "hagwons" and public schools. The later night hours at the hagwon make my tummy ache a little (I work American school days of 7am-3pm in Maine at the moment), but there is certainly structure there. I have heard a few hagwon horror stories. Bigger class size can =greatly increased chaos in American schools. Assuming I can worm my way into one, are public schools still my best bet? |
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adventureman
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Public school vs. Hagwon |
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| C.M. wrote: |
| I think it's fair to say public school positions are better than Hagwon gigs. What I would like to know is why. What is it, exactly, that makes public schools a better place to work? Hagwon work can be debilitating; the unruliness, the lack of a proper curriculum, the emphasis on games |
You can experience all these things in public schools to a certain degree as well, depending on the placement. |
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C.M.
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Location: Gangwondo
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| So is it fair to say, then, that there is not much difference between hagwons and public schools where working environment is concerned? That there is no guarantee that public schools would be less aggravating than hagwons? If not (and leaving aside matters such as benefits and pay) what is it that attracts people to public schools? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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what is it that attracts people to public schools?
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For many people, like me, it is the dependability of the benefits plus the more reasonable working time.
I like not having to hassle about insurance, severance and pay day. I've had struggles with employers over those issues before and don't want to have to do it again. I'm a morning person and not a fan of working in the evening. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| C.M. wrote: |
| So is it fair to say, then, that there is not much difference between hagwons and public schools where working environment is concerned? That there is no guarantee that public schools would be less aggravating than hagwons? If not (and leaving aside matters such as benefits and pay) what is it that attracts people to public schools? |
There are many things, and whether you'd prefer them probably depends more on your personality than anything else. It's a bit like asking 'where would you rather live - Canada or the US?'. Now, for me that would be a no-brainer, but I'd still rather have a good job in a nice place in the US than a crap job in a crap neighbourhood in Canada. For a beginner a good hogwan might be better, but again, there are so many factors to consider. |
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C.M.
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Location: Gangwondo
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| C.M. wrote: |
| So is it fair to say, then, that there is not much difference between hagwons and public schools where working environment is concerned? That there is no guarantee that public schools would be less aggravating than hagwons? If not (and leaving aside matters such as benefits and pay) what is it that attracts people to public schools? |
There are many things, and whether you'd prefer them probably depends more on your personality than anything else. It's a bit like asking 'where would you rather live - Canada or the US?'. Now, for me that would be a no-brainer, but I'd still rather have a good job in a nice place in the US than a crap job in a crap neighbourhood in Canada. For a beginner a good hogwan might be better, but again, there are so many factors to consider. |
You're right, it is a broad question with lots of room. However, if someone held a gun to your head and asked "why do you prefer working at a public school? List the first five reasons that come to mind" what would you say? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| C.M. wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| C.M. wrote: |
| So is it fair to say, then, that there is not much difference between hagwons and public schools where working environment is concerned? That there is no guarantee that public schools would be less aggravating than hagwons? If not (and leaving aside matters such as benefits and pay) what is it that attracts people to public schools? |
There are many things, and whether you'd prefer them probably depends more on your personality than anything else. It's a bit like asking 'where would you rather live - Canada or the US?'. Now, for me that would be a no-brainer, but I'd still rather have a good job in a nice place in the US than a crap job in a crap neighbourhood in Canada. For a beginner a good hogwan might be better, but again, there are so many factors to consider. |
You're right, it is a broad question with lots of room. However, if someone held a gun to your head and asked "why do you prefer working at a public school? List the first five reasons that come to mind" what would you say? |
1. I feel like I'm a real teacher at a real school.
2. I like teaching older kids, don't really like younger kids, and at my high / middle school I have no students under 12. It's hard to find a hogwan with no young children and at many all they have is young children.
3. I'm the first and only foreigner here, can set the standards and break the ice myself, don't have to deal with foreigners who cause all sorts of problems and are unprofessional and slobbish at work, and get treated very well just for being the first foreigner and trying hard.
4. I get to plan my lessons myself and am not forced to follow any boring, mistake-ridden crap.
5. The holiday time is great.
Not everyone at public school has it so good or gets along with everyone so well, and some hogwan gigs are really good. It just depends on you and the luck of the draw. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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I wrote this on another thread
about the subject.
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If you are applying with either GEPIK or EPIK there are a ton of posts on these two programmes, do a search on here and you'll come up with heaps of comments on both programmes. The SMOE programme is new but I'm pretty sure that the problems you encounter there will be the same.
The big thing to remember on the public school versus hagwon debate is that there are good and bad hagwons just as good and bad public school gigs. I'm always wary of people who give blanket statements like 'hogwons are crap' and 'public schools are better' as their experience is unique to them.
Benefits to public schools
1. Less issues with pay. Most public school teachers don't complain about pay on daves.
2. Students. In general because you're seeing them when they are a bit more alert the kids tend to be better behaved.
3. Feeling more like a 'real teacher.' But this also means you are doing 'real teaching' If you're in a middle or high school your classes may be assessed on and you are doing the assessment on high stakes stuff.
4. Less teaching time.
5. Set hours. No split shifts.
Problems.
1. Class sizes. You'll be thrown into a classroom with 40 kids. Some people have co-teachers who may or may not speak english depending on where you teach.. If you haven't taught before this is a concern.
2. Stupid adminstrators. Co-teachers, vice principal, principal, district education admin people are all going to have an impact on your life. They don't play by western rules, and if you run afoul of any of these people they will make your life hell with dozens of low level things.
3. A lot of time sitting on your ass. Be prepared to spend a lot of time sitting on your butt doing nothing. Most public schools will require you to come in even if there are no classes, nor any other teachers there so that you can sit on your butt.
4. You will likely be the only foreigner in your school. Having expats around who know the 'lay of the land' is helpful in adjusting to life in korea. Also good to have someone to vent to about korea and teaching who understands where you're coming from.
5. Isolated locations. Some public school jobs are right out in the boonies. Be prepared to live in 'real korea.' Small town living carries with it a whole bunch of extra problems for some people.
Vacation, apartment size, salary, class size, number of classes, adimn, testing, grading, extra cirrucular crap is all highly variable. A lot of it comes down to different schools, particularly the principal and your minder can make a difference in whether things are pleasurable or not. Unfourtantly being able to know how good your minder, principal and vice-principal are going to make your life hell or not is impossbile to tell without working there first.
Hagwons.
Benefits.
1. Small class sizes. Biggest class I taught was 20.
2. You generally get to teach a variety of ages.
3. More used to dealing with foreigners. A good hagwon will know what you need to get set up.
4. A chance to work with other foreigners. There are mixed reviews about this but if you are a social person this is important.
5. Less sitting on your ass time.
Problems.
1. Dodgy bosses. Bad apartments. pay problems, scheduling changes, and just generally nightmare stuff all comes back to the 'dodgy boss' problem.
2. Discpline. Because the kids are paying coustmers, the lunatics run the aslyum.
3. Hours. Split shifts are often to be found. These can make your day a lot longer.
4. Highly volatile market. Good hagwons can go bad. Bad ones can go out of business.
However there are ways to avoid the bad hagwons. Saxiif's Hagwon Search Guide gives some really good pointers.
My advice to people new to both teaching and korea really need to think hard about whether a public school job is for them. A lot of these gigs will have you being the only waygook, sometimes in isolated areas, with a staff that may or may not speak much english (not so bad in the middle and high school where there are korean english teachers). Also a crash course in classroom management with 12 kids who don't speak english is infinetly easier than when you have 40.
Also just as a general observation at the moment I think that hogwons in general are used to having to deal with foreigners, so being thrown into the day to day mine field of dealing with koreans. Obviously this will change over time, but a lot of westerners get frustrated dealing with adminstrators who have no idea how the west functons while they themselves have little idea of how korean adminstration functions.
Please try and look at yourself and your abilities as a teacher before you make this decision. If you're not confident that you'll be able to adapt quickly korea and teaching and like having a full social schedule then perhaps you'd be better to teaching in a large hagwon in seoul or a big city. If you're a bit more indepedent and want to experience the 'real korea' without a security blanket then perhaps a public school is for you |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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One thing worth considering is that kids HATE hagwons. I've been doing survey work with my middle schoolers about preferences/opinions and every single student says they dislike hagwon the most. Often the reason why is that they've more friends in public school, aside from the obvious fact......they've just done a day at school and then go off to hagwon for MORE study. 
This affects kids' attitudes and teacher experiences I suspect. |
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C.M.
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Location: Gangwondo
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Excellent. Thank you. The above three posts answer my question. |
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