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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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 Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: Lawmaker: Marines killed Iraqis �in cold blood� |
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Navy conducting war crimes probe into November violence in Haditha
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838343/
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WASHINGTON - A Pentagon probe into the death of Iraqi civilians last November in the Iraqi city of Haditha will show that U.S. Marines "killed innocent civilians in cold blood," a U.S. lawmaker said Wednesday.
From the beginning, Iraqis in the town of Haditha said U.S. Marines deliberately killed 15 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including seven women and three children.
One young Iraqi girl said the Marines killed six members of her family, including her parents. �The Americans came into the room where my father was praying,� she said, �and shot him.�
On Wednesday, Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said the accounts are true.
Military officials told NBC News that the Marine Corps' own evidence appears to show Murtha is right.
A videotape taken by an Iraqi showed the aftermath of the alleged attack: a blood-smeared bedroom floor and bits of what appear to be human flesh and bullet holes on the walls.
The video, obtained by Time magazine, was broadcast a day after town residents told The Associated Press that American troops entered homes on Nov. 19 and shot dead 15 members of two families, including a 3-year-old girl, after a roadside bomb killed a U.S. Marine.
On Nov. 20, U.S. Marines spokesman Capt. Jeffrey Pool issued a statement saying that on the previous day a roadside bomb had killed 15 civilians and a Marine. In a later gunbattle, U.S. and Iraqi troops killed eight insurgents, he said.
U.S. military officials later confirmed that the version of events was wrong.
Murtha, a vocal opponent of the war in Iraq, said at a news conference Wednesday that sources within the military have told him that an internal investigation will show that "there was no firefight, there was no IED (improvised explosive device) that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."
Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.
One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow Marine.
�This one is ugly," one official told NBC News.
Three Marine officers � commanders in Haditha � have been relieved of duty, and at least 12 Marines in all are under investigation for what would be the worst single incident involving the deliberate killing of civilians by U.S. military in Iraq.
The Marine Corps issued a statement in response to Murtha's remarks:
"There is an ongoing investigation; therefore, any comment at this time would be inappropriate and could undermine the investigatory and possible legal process. As soon as the facts are known and decisions on future actions are made, we will make that information available to the public to the fullest extent allowable."
Murtha held the news conference to mark six months since his initial call for "redeployment" of U.S. forces from Iraq.
He said U.S. forces were under undue pressure in Iraq because of poor planning and allocation of resources by the Bush administration. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| This makes you happy? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| This makes you happy? |
Does it make you happy to ask if it makes him happy? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| It doesn't make, me happy, I think about Iraqi civilian deaths everyday. But of course this is what all us "nutty" lefty's said would happen, sometimes it just sucks being right all the time. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Doesn't it make you happy that action is being taken against the people who did it? |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Doesn't it make you happy that action is being taken against the people who did it? |
In this case something is being done about it. There was some pretty damaging evidence thus far. Do you think that there are other cases such as the one in the OP where nothing has been done? I'm not suggesting that these acts are an everyday occurance, but I think it's very likely that some military personel have taken many civilian lives just because a few wanted some pay back.
Kind of lucky that someone caught the aftermath on video. Maybe without that evidence nothing would have been done.
At least we know that most of the people who wear the uniform are good. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Damn straight but like Murtha says in his interview on TV, this is going to continue to get worse, some of these guys are going back 3,4, 5 times and we are now starting to see what happened in Vietnam, civilian masacres. There is nothing that can stop this besides leaving, its only going to get worse. And shouldn't these marines be tried in an Iraqi court and held to the death penalty, of course not because they have a SOFA agreement even though there still hasn't been a true representative government put into power that can agree to a SOFA. Hmmm.... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Damn straight but like Murtha says in his interview on TV, this is going to continue to get worse, some of these guys are going back 3,4, 5 times and we are now starting to see what happened in Vietnam, civilian masacres. There is nothing that can stop this besides leaving, its only going to get worse. And shouldn't these marines be tried in an Iraqi court and held to the death penalty, of course not because they have a SOFA agreement even though there still hasn't been a true representative government put into power that can agree to a SOFA. Hmmm.... |
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| still hasn't been a true representative government |
The Iraq government is far more representative than most mideast regimes are. Far more legitimate too.
I mean if you are going to complain about governments that are not representative... |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Far more legitimate too.
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oh yes. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Man you guys, i would love for a country to invade whatever your home countries are and then appoint a government and then have that government sign a treaty protecting the occupying forces from prosecution, let freedom ring! And aren't you wondering why the newly elected government can't even govern? Because it will be very tough to actualy make democracy work in Iraq for a variety of reasons. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Man you guys, i would love for a country to invade whatever your home countries are and then appoint a government and then have that government sign a treaty protecting the occupying forces from prosecution, let freedom ring! And aren't you wondering why the newly elected government can't even govern? Because it will be very tough to actualy make democracy work in Iraq for a variety of reasons. |
Some countries are just too backward not to be controlled by a dictator. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| You're right, it was so amazing to see those proud Iraqi people rise up in a democratic fevor and overthrow Saddam and create a new and great democracy. Oh wait a second, thats not what happened at all. Ah crap! |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| gypsyfish wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Man you guys, i would love for a country to invade whatever your home countries are and then appoint a government and then have that government sign a treaty protecting the occupying forces from prosecution, let freedom ring! And aren't you wondering why the newly elected government can't even govern? Because it will be very tough to actualy make democracy work in Iraq for a variety of reasons. |
Some countries are just too backward not to be controlled by a dictator. |
Imagine for a moment America really really flubs it in a natural disaster. Something Katrina like. French troops come in to help distribute food and aid and set up phone lines. People would be pretty happy. But then they start to over stay their welcome. They start arresting people. French troops arresting Americans? They decide the problems that led to this flub, the inherent weaknesses in the American system, could be improved if Americans adopted the French way of doing things. They start appointing local politicians sympathetic... |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Imagine the French bring along 20,000 "private contractors" aka soldiers of fortune or mercenaries who don't have to follow any laws and are above American law. They also indiscriminatly kill civilians who get in their way all in the name of bringing the French soldiers fresh bread and wine. Jeez, I wonder how American's would react? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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except that the majority of the insurgents or either from the Sunni triangle or are Jihadists from outside of Iraq.
They are not fighting for their homes and families they are fighting to conquer Iraq. They can't win elections because they are no more than 20% of the population.
I mean they do have a right to ask for independence but they don't want that cause their area doesn't have oil. |
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