Korean Job Discussion Forums

ontheway · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:19 am Post subject:

If you read Gopher's links it shows that in 2004 the US had the highest incarceration rate in the world at 724 per 100,000. Russia was a distant second at 532 per 100,000. Of course, as with all such data, some will just attact the group reporting the data. BTW it was an advocacy group called the Sentencing Project.

Other groups and other articles have reported the same facts: the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. It's been that way for quite a while, but the gap is getting wider.

But, it's China leading the way in state sponsored murder (executions). These are not murderers being executed. They are primarily enemies of the state. But, the Chinese can hide their barbarism behind the US death penalty. "You do it too!"

This is the same way that misguided US intervenionism helped the Soviet Union survive long after it would have collapsed under the weight of it's own government. The USSR could point to the US as it's enemy and rally enough support to survive. When the world has no pure ideological leader to oppose evil, evil regimes can survive easier and longer.

Gopher · Joined: 04 Jun 2005

[deleted]

ontheway · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:21 am Post subject:

My ideology is Pro US. It's also Pro liberty. In the US, liberty and being an American were intended to go hand in hand. They no longer do.

The irony is that US government policy, and simplistic notions about the world being complicated have led the US to abandon its roots as a society based on individual liberty and limited government. This lack of ideology actually helps support the terrorists which you pretend to abhor. Your policy prescriptions lead to more violence and terror.

Pointing out this failed ideology once again in a thread that points out the irony of a "free nation" having the highest rate of incarceration on the planet is completely on topic. The fact that you miss the point is not surprising. The current US attempt to impose common values on its citizens through imprisonment (common values = communism) allows other evil regimes to do the same. It removes the threat of being compared to a free nation.

US government policy supports terror and evil governments around the world. It enables and legitimizes their existance. You support that policy.

Gopher, if I were you, I'd call YOU anti-American. But, you are just ignorant and unable to analyze sophisticated data in an ideological framework and you have to resort to calling for reactionary violence in lieu of a reasoned policy and name calling in lieu of considered discussion.

Don Gately · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject:

Speaking from my own experience, I would advise the 1 in the 136 to steer clear of the Spokane County/Municipal jail...

...that place is a fucking dump.

ddeubel · Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Wangja · Joined: 17 May 2004 Location: Seoul, Yongsan

I take no pride in the fact that in that obesity graph 4 of the top 7 are English-speaking lands.

What would be interesting would be to overlay the smoking percentages ....

ddeubel · Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Sorry, forgot to post the source of the data. From the OECD factbook found at

http://sourceoecd.org/factbook

Also if interested in the U.S. prison debacle, please read Amnesty scathing report regarding women prisoners in the U.S............here the statistics are SOOOOOO grim in comparison to the men. The U.S. stands head and shoulders above all in terms of incarcerating women and also the level of violence commited against them..........no other nation comes near, in making women into "criminals"....

http://www.amnestyusa.org/women/womeninprison.html

faddat · Joined: 02 May 2006

Anyone who's read the tiniest amount of Foucalt knows that this is a really scary thing. Prisons/schools create another reinforcement of social norms, and they are merely a norming device. Drugs are shipped in by the US gov't in massive amounts, people sell or use them and are incarcerated, and the government and a bunch of sicko corporations profit through using them as slave labor.

The USA is getting scary as hell, and with that aside, the economy is falling apart, which is how I recently ended up in South Korea with the best job I've been offered since I got my bachelor's degree. Americans, let's not kid ourselves, though-- the current (and many former, including Clinton-- maybe all this century except for Kennedy) administration in the USA is leading the US and much of the world down a highway to hell.

Our prison population just shows how low of a value the government places on actual freedom. It also illustrates the massive and intentional division of the races in the united states (government and major corps promote this divison). It's all very sad.

Wangja · Joined: 17 May 2004 Location: Seoul, Yongsan

And although these figures are 5 years old, they make it no less scary.

Description / Amount / Rank

Assaults 2,238,480 [1st of 58]
Car thefts (per capita) 3.8795 per 1,000 people [9th of 55]
Murders 12,658 [6th of 63]
Murders (per capita) 0.042802 per 1,000 people [24th of 62]
Murders with firearms 8,259 [4th of 32]
Murders with firearms (per capita) 0.0279271 per 1,000 people [8th of 32]
Rapes 89,110 [1st of 66]
Rapes (per capita) 0.301318 per 1,000 people [9th of 65]
Total crimes 23,677,800 [1st of 61]
Total crimes (per capita) 80.0645 per 1,000 people [8th of 60]

SOURCES: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/cri

ajgeddes · Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Location: Yongsan

(I am not trying to highjack this thread, but this just suprised me. Korea has a higher murder rate than Canada. Wow, who would have thought that.)

supernick · Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

Things could soon change in Canada as the new government plans to get tough on crime.

Some countries just have less people in prisons because they have different ways in dealing with crimminals. What is important is that crimminals will come back into society and there's the responsibilty that the crimminals don't come back into society worse than they were before. If the streets are the breeding grounds then prisons are just the universities.

It might give some comfort to some that the governmernt is getting tough and increasing sentences, but what good would that actually do? Has it made life safer in the U.S. and other countries? What are the stats on violent crimes? Has there been increases or decreases in the past 20 years?

Changes have to be made, but I'm not convinced that tougher penalties will be effective.

A Conservative government would undertake a sweeping series of reforms aimed at toughening Canada's justice system, starting with imposition of mandatory minimum prison terms of between five and 10 years for people convicted of major firearms offences, Stephen Harper said today.

"We should be able to walk freely on our streets," he said, according to a news release on the Conservative party Web site.

"We should feel safe in our neighbourhoods. We should live without fear in our cities.

"We should not view these as luxuries, but our rights as Canadians -- as fundamental characteristics of the Canadian way of life, on which we will not compromise."

The five-year, $500-million initiative also proposes to end house arrest -- or conditional sentences -- for violent crimes, sexual offences, weapons crimes, and impaired driving causing death, among other things.

He said a Conservative government would also end statutory release, which allows prisoners to be granted parole after serving two-thirds of their sentence. In its place, offenders would be required to earn their parole through good behaviour or rehabilitaion.

The news release said the key points of the Tory plan are:

Mandatory minimum prison sentences of five or 10 years for major firearms offences, including five years for possession of a loaded restricted or prohibited weapon such as a handgun, and an end to revolving door bail and parole policies.
Filling more than 1,000 unfilled RCMP positions and working with provinces and municipalities to hire at least 2,500 more police officers across the country.
Measures to crack down on firearms smuggling and toughen security at Canada's border crossings, including giving our customs agents the support and equipment they need to do their job.
Investing $50 million over five years in programs to promote crime prevention and assist youth at risk.
"The revolving door of criminal justice of this current government bears significant responsibility for the tide of gun, drug and gang crime plaguing our cities," Mr. Harper said as he campaigned at the Eaton Centre in downtown Toronto, just metres from where a 15-year-old girl was killed by gunfire on Boxing Day.

"Some suggested immediately that the Boxing Day shooters themselves were the victims of social exclusion, even as they were last seen leaving the scene in a BMW," Mr. Harper said.

However, while special efforts must be made to help at-risk youth, "social exclusion does not excuse turning Yonge Street into a shooting gallery," he said.

Yesterday, one of the men accused in connection with the shooting made an appearance in a Toronto court.

Andre Thompson, 20, appeared briefly at Old City Hall. His bail hearing was adjourned until Jan. 12.

Afterward, his lawyer, Robert Chartier, spoke to the news media.

"It's too early to talk about this case and the details of the case. However, Mr. Thompson does want everyone to know that he does profess his innocence and he's anxious to have this matter go to trial," Mr. Chartier said.

Mr. Thompson and a 17-year-old face seven gun-related charges. They were arrested together at Castle Frank subway station a short time after two groups fired at one another on Yonge Street on Boxing Day, killing 15-year-old Jane Creba and wounding six others.

Neither man has been charged with her killing. Police are still awaiting results of forensic tests that will determine whether the bullet that killed Ms. Creba came from a 9 mm handgun seized shortly after the shooting.

The Canadian Professional Police Association embraced almost all of the Tory platform today, saying it responds to pleas police have been making for years. But the non-partisan group stopped short of a political endorsement.

Tony Cannavino, president of the police association, said tougher sentences for violent criminals, restrictions on bail and stricter parole rules will be welcomed by the 54,000 rank-and-file cops he represents.

"The message that they are going to be sending is: 'The party's over'," he said.

The father of one of four RCMP officers shot and killed in Mayerthorpe, Alta., last spring was at Harper's announcement today and said he too supports the plan.

"Changes have to take place," said Don Schiemann, a Lutheran minister, whose son Peter was among the victims.

He described the proposals as a "very, very effective start," but would like to see them go further, including improved sentencing guidelines for judges.