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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm not saying Roh hasn't done anything. Just that the worst thing that's happened on his watch doesn't compete to the Gwangju Uprising or any of the illegal prisons in the '70s or '80s.
And yes, North Korea is bad, but the worst possible thing that could happen is war, and we've moved back from the brink in the last 18 or so years, with a few shaky steps here and there. I'm also sort of a fan of human rights, which have been improving in this half of Korea since the country democratised. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| One article said the guy has been jailed 8 times. I don't think we are dealing with a paragon of civic virtue here. |
a psycho
don't read much into it |
Oh sure, I mean the would be assassin of Pope John Paul II wasnt a psycho either right? Psychos NEVER EVER become pawns ina larger political game, RIGHT? |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
I'm not saying Roh hasn't done anything. Just that the worst thing that's happened on his watch doesn't compete to the Gwangju Uprising or any of the illegal prisons in the '70s or '80s.
And yes, North Korea is bad, but the worst possible thing that could happen is war, and we've moved back from the brink in the last 18 or so years, with a few shaky steps here and there. I'm also sort of a fan of human rights, which have been improving in this half of Korea since the country democratised. |
We've moved back from the brink because NK doesnt have the capacity to wage war. Nothing the South, with its ASSANINE sunshine policy, has accomplished. Infact, under Roh we have come much closer to it because they are giving the North rope to hang on to. The thing that bothers me about Roh and Uri Dung is that their policies have put the civil order, rule of law, ROK's security and sovereignty on the line by bending over to the North. You are simply misreading the situation. The Sunshins Policy has been a disater that has allowed the North to pull out of a crisis that COULD have led to their demise. IF pressed, the North would have buckled. Instead, the Uri Dung commies have done all they could to save their ideological hero up North.
What do you call rights anyway? If you mean allowing terrorist groups to run wild, hell, even FUNDING them, then thats not my idea of human rights. There HAS to be a severe crackdown on the left here, and I would CHAMPION any move to seriously put adent in the left by imprisoning those from the militant pro-Pyeongyang group. Start on campuses. Arrest leaders of some of the militant student groups, imprison them, ruin them for all I care. This has to be stopped. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If you mean allowing terrorist groups to run wild |
What 'terrorist groups' would these be then? |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
I'm not saying Roh hasn't done anything. Just that the worst thing that's happened on his watch doesn't compete to the Gwangju Uprising or any of the illegal prisons in the '70s or '80s.
And yes, North Korea is bad, but the worst possible thing that could happen is war, and we've moved back from the brink in the last 18 or so years, with a few shaky steps here and there. I'm also sort of a fan of human rights, which have been improving in this half of Korea since the country democratised. |
We've moved back from the brink because NK doesnt have the capacity to wage war. Nothing the South, with its ASSANINE sunshine policy, has accomplished. Infact, under Roh we have come much closer to it because they are giving the North rope to hang on to. The thing that bothers me about Roh and Uri Dung is that their policies have put the civil order, rule of law, ROK's security and sovereignty on the line by bending over to the North. You are simply misreading the situation. The Sunshins Policy has been a disater that has allowed the North to pull out of a crisis that COULD have led to their demise. IF pressed, the North would have buckled. Instead, the Uri Dung commies have done all they could to save their ideological hero up North.
What do you call rights anyway? If you mean allowing terrorist groups to run wild, hell, even FUNDING them, then thats not my idea of human rights. There HAS to be a severe crackdown on the left here, and I would CHAMPION any move to seriously put adent in the left by imprisoning those from the militant pro-Pyeongyang group. Start on campuses. Arrest leaders of some of the militant student groups, imprison them, ruin them for all I care. This has to be stopped. |
That's what my husband thinks, Jinju. He is Korean, btw. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you mean allowing terrorist groups to run wild |
What 'terrorist groups' would these be then? |
How about Hanchongryeon?
http://www.korealiberator.org/2006/05/10/should-hanchongryon-be-designated-a-terrorist-organization/
read this
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=080000&biid=2006051065318
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| The Supreme Court of Korea has ruled twice that Hanchongryun is a group benefiting the enemy. However, the Unification Ministry evasively said, �We permitted their visit to the North because they will go there under the name of another organization (The June 15 College Student Movement Association).� The ministry allowed Hanchongryun leaders to go to the North last year, citing that it was a �visit by individuals.� Ignoring the law and the rulings of the Supreme Court is a denial of the legitimacy of the Republic of Korea. |
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| In particular, after being founded last year, the June 15 College Student Movement Association made it clear that it is following the North Korean regime, saying, �We will make this year the first year of the withdrawal of U.S. forces in Korea.� North Korea and the Unification Ministry are the only ones which approved the group as the representatives of college students. |
* speaking of the ministry of reunification, the leader of Uri DUNG was the Minister of Reunification, and his ideas about castrating SK's defensive abilities are public record.
Let me get this straight. The Unification Ministry, the most virulant pro-communist ministry in this country has allowed a group which has been TWICE labelled an enemy of the state and ally of the state's #1 enemy (although we cant call the North that anymore because they would get mad at us and then what would we do?) to go visit your #1 enemy? Although we really cant call them that anymore, NEVERMIND the:
- 1.1 million armed men over on the other side of the DMZ,
-never mind the hundreds of bilogocially and chemically tipped missiles pointed at our heads,
-nevermind the threat of unleashing a "Deluge of Fire" on us if they dont like how the ciizens of South Korea vote http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk00100&num=746http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk00100&num=746
So, you ask, which terrorist organizations? Well, Honchongryeon is one, how about the goons in Pyeongtaek? Attacking UNARMED soldiers, police, MOTHERS OF SOLDIERS (yes, old defenseless ladies) with sharp sticks and other weapons? The coalition comprises members of the Korean Confederation of Trade Unions, the Korean Federation of University Student Councils or Hanchongryon and the Democratic Labor Party. Oh yes, they are ALL funded by this government. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:49 am Post subject: |
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The inteersing thing is that the government is doing some nasty things at home. How about this?
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200508/200508180020.html
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Doh Hee-yun, the head of the Citizens' Coalition for Human Rights for Abductees and North Korean Refugees, said Thursday two inspectors from Mapo Police Station followed him from morning to night during the celebrations. He said the inspectors tailed him by car and even followed him into a restaurant but when challenged would only say it was an order from Seoul Metropolitan Police. Choi Sung-yong, the head of an activist group for families of South Koreans abducted by North Korea, said officers from Songpa Police Station followed him all the way into the countryside, where he was visiting his mother in hospital.
Park Chan-sung, who chairs the Citizens Coalition to Stop the Nuclear Development of North Korea, said two-man police teams kept a tight watch on six or seven of the group's leaders, conducted body searches and confiscated pamphlets and picket signs. He said police confined some to their homes, and on Monday police cars blocked both alley entrances to the group's office. The head of the Free Citizens Alliance for Korea, Kim Gu-bu, said after the group demonstrated against the North Korean delegation's visit to the National Cemetery on Sunday, police tailed some 50 of the group's members until Wednesday, with five or six plainclothes officers loitering near the group's office all day.
Park Chan-sung demanded, "Can one permit leftists to take their metal pipes and head to Pyeongtaek for a demonstration at a U.S. military base� as happened in July �but prevent us from going to express our opinion without even a single weapon?" He said he would lodge complaints against the officers responsible. |
That is a GREAT question. But then again, there has already been more than one attempt at cracking down on the right, mainly on the conservative press.
Some of you people live in such nice ignorance. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So, you ask, which terrorist organizations? Well, Honchongryeon is one, how about the goons in Pyeongtaek? Attacking UNARMED soldiers, police, MOTHERS OF SOLDIERS (yes, old defenseless ladies) with sharp sticks and other weapons? |
I would call Hanchongryon 'radicals' and I certainly loathe their goals and methods. However, to call these people, and violent demonstrators 'terrorists' is pure hyperbole. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So, you ask, which terrorist organizations? Well, Honchongryeon is one, how about the goons in Pyeongtaek? Attacking UNARMED soldiers, police, MOTHERS OF SOLDIERS (yes, old defenseless ladies) with sharp sticks and other weapons? |
I would call Hanchongryon 'radicals' and I certainly loathe their goals and methods. However, to call these people, and violent demonstrators 'terrorists' is pure hyperbole. |
You ean attacking unarmed police and army with sharpened bamboo sticks isnt an act of terror? They are terrorists and also pro communist subversive and deserve to have their futures destroyed. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So, you ask, which terrorist organizations? Well, Honchongryeon is one, how about the goons in Pyeongtaek? Attacking UNARMED soldiers, police, MOTHERS OF SOLDIERS (yes, old defenseless ladies) with sharp sticks and other weapons? |
I would call Hanchongryon 'radicals' and I certainly loathe their goals and methods. However, to call these people, and violent demonstrators 'terrorists' is pure hyperbole. |
You ean attacking unarmed police and army with sharpened bamboo sticks isnt an act of terror? They are terrorists and also pro communist subversive and deserve to have their futures destroyed. |
If every person who attacked police or army with sticks during a demonstration is a terrorist the word starts to lose it's meaning entirely. They are radicals, they are not terrorists. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So, you ask, which terrorist organizations? Well, Honchongryeon is one, how about the goons in Pyeongtaek? Attacking UNARMED soldiers, police, MOTHERS OF SOLDIERS (yes, old defenseless ladies) with sharp sticks and other weapons? |
I would call Hanchongryon 'radicals' and I certainly loathe their goals and methods. However, to call these people, and violent demonstrators 'terrorists' is pure hyperbole. |
You ean attacking unarmed police and army with sharpened bamboo sticks isnt an act of terror? They are terrorists and also pro communist subversive and deserve to have their futures destroyed. |
If every person who attacked police or army with sticks during a demonstration is a terrorist the word starts to lose it's meaning entirely. They are radicals, they are not terrorists. |
Not only are they terrorists they have been ruled to be enemies of the state by the Supreme Court of the ROK TWICE. What needs to be done is the leaders of this terrorist organization as well as the militant members need to be imprisoned for a long time. I really dont care about their rights being trampled, they have none. They are enemies of the state and should be allowed to go to North Korea but not allowed to return to the South. |
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plato's republic
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Ancient Greece
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| If the guy was an assassin sent by Roh and the Uri Party to kill that woman then he did a bloody shoddy job of it and I'd be asking for my money back. If he really wanted to kill her, surely he would have stabbed her in the heart or throat or better still, shot her in the head. He's a lunatic and just because he's a member of the Uri Party, doesn't mean he was sent by 'anyone' to assassinate the victim. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| plato's republic wrote: |
| If the guy was an assassin sent by Roh and the Uri Party to kill that woman then he did a bloody shoddy job of it and I'd be asking for my money back. If he really wanted to kill her, surely he would have stabbed her in the heart or throat or better still, shot her in the head. He's a lunatic and just because he's a member of the Uri Party, doesn't mean he was sent by 'anyone' to assassinate the victim. |
Your standard is then failure or success? If an assassin fails that means he was just a lunatic, right? I mean Pope John Paul II survived, there must not have been any plot against him, right? Yeah, the guy failed...barely. He could have taken out her juggular if he just got a different angle or a deepr slash. Sending a lunatic gives you deniability. Sending a pro assassin is riskier, what if he fails and talks? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:13 am Post subject: |
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I would tend to agree. I htink that he was alone (or possibly with one other) and did this out of a perverse sense of duty. He had felt slighted by many in his life and wanted to take it out on the party that most embodied that... Hanara.
The question of the day is not how this will affect the political spectrum (because, the truth is I doubt it will sway any decided voters), but how they will charge and convict him.
Can attempted murder be proven in this case? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You ean attacking unarmed police and army with sharpened bamboo sticks isnt an act of terror? |
No, it's called a violent, rowdy demonstration. It is certainly not terrorism, and I don't think it is useful to label it as such. Your hysterics about 'terrorists' and 'commies' somewhat detract from the credibility of your argument.
If members of Hanchongryon are engaged in seditious activities, then they should be brought to account by all means. But to call the Uri Party a 'bunch of commies' is simplistic nonsense. |
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