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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| capebretoncanadian wrote: |
| Goddamn Jinju quit hijacking threads with your argumentativeness.....this thread WAS interesting. |
But if he didn't hijack them how would we ever know how terrible of a place Canada is and how much of a paradise Korea is.
I personally find his posts to be completely unbiased, rational, informative, educational, and inspirational.
Plus, it is nice to be reminded that there are still people out there who feel their opinion is the only way to go and that all others are wrong for holding a different point of view. |
Im Canadian so Im allowed to say bad things about Canada. I find it a nice balance to the rabid nationalism displayed by many Candians on this board:) How many times will canucks bring up how much better at hockey they are than the yanks? Hockey, how boring.
I never said Korea is paradise, just that people who keep complaining about it but choose to stay here, are for the most part pretty pathetic. if you dont like a place, leave. Thats why I left Canada;) And when I slag Canada atleast Im not a hypocrite.
My opinion isnt the "only way to go" but its my opinion and Ill argue it. You are free to argue yours. Kapish? |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| capebretoncanadian wrote: |
| Goddamn Jinju quit hijacking threads with your argumentativeness.....this thread WAS interesting. |
But if he didn't hijack them how would we ever know how terrible of a place Canada is and how much of a paradise Korea is.
I personally find his posts to be completely unbiased, rational, informative, educational, and inspirational.
Plus, it is nice to be reminded that there are still people out there who feel their opinion is the only way to go and that all others are wrong for holding a different point of view. |
Canada, eh?  I did a job in Sudbury a few years back. Liked that Molson Canadian  beer. Although Sudbury was not much to look at the other places I visited there were stunning. Great country, great mix of people and a great hockey country. Plan to take a vacation there hopefully before I retire. |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Newbie wrote: |
| capebretoncanadian wrote: |
| Goddamn Jinju quit hijacking threads with your argumentativeness.....this thread WAS interesting. |
But if he didn't hijack them how would we ever know how terrible of a place Canada is and how much of a paradise Korea is.
I personally find his posts to be completely unbiased, rational, informative, educational, and inspirational.
Plus, it is nice to be reminded that there are still people out there who feel their opinion is the only way to go and that all others are wrong for holding a different point of view. |
Im Canadian so Im allowed to say bad things about Canada. I find it a nice balance to the rabid nationalism displayed by many Candians on this board:) How many times will canucks bring up how much better at hockey they are than the yanks? Hockey, how boring.
I never said Korea is paradise, just that people who keep complaining about it but choose to stay here, are for the most part pretty pathetic. if you dont like a place, leave. Thats why I left Canada;) And when I slag Canada atleast Im not a hypocrite.
My opinion isnt the "only way to go" but its my opinion and Ill argue it. You are free to argue yours. Kapish? |
Sounds fair.
Although, after 4 years on this board and paying particular attention to anything related to hockey, I cannot recall a single time when some Canadian compared us to Americans. Why would we, they're way down the pole on the hockey scene |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hockey games were about the only time I ever saw some Canadians get a bit rabid or nationalistic and I guess they have that right as they've won a lot of Olympic Gold and World Cups. Still they didn't seem to go anywhere near as nuts as the Koreans with their constant soccer repeats on TV all the time. Nor did I see 'comedy' shows where the Canadian kids play foreign kids and Canadian announcers go apeshit when Canadian kids score. Guess they have a different kind of humor there.
Toronto was about the most culturally diverse city I've seen (only London or New York can touch it in this regard). The variety there totally blew Seoul, with 3x the population, away. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow, nothing like comparing the etnic mix of the largest city of a 150 year old country built on immigration with a city of a country that has never had any major immigration its its 3000 year old history. Good one, and I thought the hilarity of this thread couldnt get any higher. One thing you missed when in Canada was a show where a Canadian comedian went to American cities and asked americans a bunch of questions, and then they took the ones that were the stupidest and preented that as a picture of what Americans are like. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Zulu wrote: |
| Hockey games were about the only time I ever saw some Canadians get a bit rabid or nationalistic and I guess they have that right as they've won a lot of Olympic Gold and World Cups. Still they didn't seem to go anywhere near as nuts as the Koreans with their constant soccer repeats on TV all the time. Nor did I see 'comedy' shows where the Canadian kids play foreign kids and Canadian announcers go *beep* when Canadian kids score. Guess they have a different kind of humor there. |
Hockey is great. Actually, it always pissed me off that they would never replay the games from the Olympics or the WCH. It seemed that if you didn't see it live, you might be lucky enough to catch a replay the next day, but after that you were out of luck. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Wow, nothing like comparing the etnic mix of the largest city of a 150 year old country built on immigration with a city of a country that has never had any major immigration its its 3000 year old history. Good one, and I thought the hilarity of this thread couldnt get any higher. One thing you missed when in Canada was a show where a Canadian comedian went to American cities and asked americans a bunch of questions, and then they took the ones that were the stupidest and preented that as a picture of what Americans are like. |
Oh, are we still arguing? Well, ok, if you wish.
Don't you see the glaring contradiction of your premise? The very fact that Korea has had a 'great 5000 year old culture' yet still wants virtually no ethnic mixing in 2006 vs. Canada's great immigration achievements since only 1867 (?) shows that very different cultural mindsets are at work in the two countries. This more than just about anything exemplifies Canada's openess and Korea's xenophobia. Which do you prefer? My vote goes with Canada all the way.
Many Koreans love to regale me with the great achievements of Korea compared to the West yet despite said 5000 year old magnificent culture and "world's best education system" dynamism and being hub of everything they have no universities of world rank, no Nobel in Science, Medicine, Literature, ...you get the picture. Need we continue this discussion?
You refer to Rick Mercer and company on This Hour Has 22 minutes? Yes I saw that show many times while in Canada and I think most Americans see it as basically harmless, even quite funny and accurate at times; not much different from Leno's hijinks when he interviews people on the streets of LA. Speaking of Leno contrast this with Korea's off the Richter scale reaction when Leno made a simple dog meat quip. Guess that abiltity to appreciate comedy is a one-way street in Korea, right Jinju?
Despite being the target of a few jokes as far as I know no American netizen groups popped up cliaming his head and no American TV stations sent 'journalists' to harass Mr. Mercer or his old father as did the Korean TV stations with speed-skater Anton Ohno after he won the speed skating Gold in 2002. I'm sure the Koreans thought this was hilarious, though I doubt the elderly Mr. Ohno got the joke. Jinju, I think we have a serious difference of opinion as to what constitutes good old fashion harmless humor, and what constitutes really bad taste built on extreme nationalism, pettiness, and vindictiveness.
Last edited by Zulu on Thu May 25, 2006 12:51 am; edited 2 times in total |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Zulu wrote: |
Oh, are we still arguing? Well, ok, if you wish.
Don't you see the glaring contradiction of your premise? The very fact that Korea has had a 'great 5000 year old culture' yet still wants virtually no ethnic mixing in 2006 vs. Canada's great immigration achievements since only 1867 (?) shows that very different cultural mindsets are at work in the two countries. This more than just about anything exemplifies Canada's openess and Korea's xenophobia. Which do you prefer? My vote goes with Canada all the way. |
Who said Korea had no ethnic mixing? I suggest you actually read up on Korean history. Heres a hint: Koreans are not the pure race they seem to think they are. Theres been a lot of mixing.
Second of all, name me ONE, just ONE Asian nation that hashad the sort of immigration that North America has. This is not just Korea we are talking about here. You cant name one because there isnt one. North America is unique in this regard, even Europe cant match it. The simple fact of thematter is that immigrants went to North America. Not Asia, not Africa, not even Europe until recently. Why? Plenty of land, no mass poverty, no wars like in the "Old World" be it Europe or Asia. To say this is a Korean problem is well, continuing your stupidity.
| Quote: |
| Many Koreans love to regale me with the great achievements of Korea compared to the West yet despite said 5000 year old magnificent culture and "world's best education system" dynamism and being hub of everything they have no universities of world rank, no Nobel in Science, Medicine, Literature, ...you get the picture. Need we continue this discussion? |
Sure we do. As you may, though I doubt it, Korea only recently emerged out of 3rd world status. This is a country that has been a poor one for thousands of years. Being overrun by foreign powers didnt help. It will take time for them to get all those things. How though does that take away what they have done? They are right to be proud of their 5000 year old history. Why shouldnt they? Im sure your country has things to be proud of. Why deny the Koreans theirs?
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| You refer to Rick Mercer and company on This Hour Has 22 minutes? Yes I saw that show many times while in Canada and I think most Americans see it as basically harmless, even quite funny and accurate at times; not much different from Leno's hijinks when he interviews people on the streets of LA. Speaking of Leno contrast this with Korea's off the Richter scale reaction when Leno made a simple dog meat quip. Guess that abiltity to appreciate comedy is a one-way street in Korea, right Jinju? |
Holy crap are you dense. So wait, Mercer is funny but 5 year olds playing soccer are Korean panzers on a rampage spreading xenophobia and nationalism? I think mercer was funny. I thought the kids were funny. Extending your strange "logic" we arrive at a conclusion that Mercer is ridiculing Americans. Which he isnt but then again, 5 year old kids are not the flagship for Korean nationalism.
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| Despite being the target of a few jokes as far as I know no American netizen groups popped up cliaming his head and no American TV stations sent 'journalists' to harass Mr. Mercer |
Did someone do that to the 5 year olds, except for you?
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| or his old father as did the Korean TV stations with speed-skater Anton Ohno after he won the speed skating Gold in 2002. |
I thought the Ohno thing was stupid, too.
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| I'm sure the Koreans thought this was hilarious, though I doubt the elderly Mr. Ohno got the joke. Jinju, I think we have a serious difference of opinion as to what constitutes good old fashion harmless humor, and what constitutes really bad taste built on extreme nationalism, pettiness, and vindictiveness |
In what way are 5 year olds vindictive and petty? As far as I know that show is not ridiculing anyone. All they are doing is cheering their little team of cute 5 year olds. And the kids lose. Geez, what if they won, I bet you would be first to accuse them of paying off the refs. Get a life, loser. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Who said Korea had no ethnic mixing? I suggest you actually read up on Korean history. Heres a hint: Koreans are not the pure race they seem to think they are. Theres been a lot of mixing. |
Well have fun telling them that. I actually think Korean (written) history books might be part of your problem there bud. 
I see so many non-Koreans (Blacks, Whites, Dravidians, etc.) fitting in so well in Korea and why hell there's a virtual cornucopia of cultures here as evident by the plethora of cultural neighborhoods and ethnic restaraunts. Not to mention the presence of all these different looking people in the ROK military. You still deny this?
| jinju wrote: |
| Second of all, name me ONE, just ONE Asian nation that hashad the sort of immigration that North America has. . |
Okeydokey. India.
There are few places on Earth with as much genetic, linguistic, religious or cultural variety - and it's been that way for millenia prior to Europeans' colonization of the New World. But seeing as we're here why are you avoiding comparison between Korean immigration and openess, to other Asian nations like Singapore, Thailand, Japan, etc. I suggest you pick up some recent demographic and business journals.
| jinju wrote: |
| This is not just Korea we are talking about here. You cant name one because there isnt one. . |
uh yeah, I think i did that already. See above.
| jinju wrote: |
| North America is unique in this regard, even Europe cant match it. The simple fact of thematter is that immigrants went to North America. Not Asia, not Africa, not even Europe until recently. Why? Plenty of land, no mass poverty, no wars like in the "Old World" be it Europe or Asia. To say this is a Korean problem is well, continuing your stupidity.. |
As I've demonstrated, not that unique in history. What is rather unique however is the Hermit Kingdom. Even Koreans use this name to this day, and for good reason.
May I suggest read among other things you read some cultural geography and demography texts, as well as Jared Diamond's studies and then attempt to lecture me on the lack of immigration in Asia (other than in Korea, of course).
| jinju wrote: |
| Sure we do. As you may, though I doubt it, Korea only recently emerged out of 3rd world status. This is a country that has been a poor one for thousands of years. Being overrun by foreign powers didnt help. It will take time for them to get all those things. How though does that take away what they have done? They are right to be proud of their 5000 year old history. Why shouldnt they? Im sure your country has things to be proud of. Why deny the Koreans theirs? |
Oh it's we now? I thought you were Canadian? I don't deny them anything except the right to make their absurd supremist claims unchallenged. If you haven't been the victim of this constant grandstanding you are rather unique and I envy you. Korea had made its own bed, and continues to do so, so please spare me the whine excuse about how Korea is the poor victim blah blah blah. Germany, France, England, Poland, Russia and a lot of nations were overrun by foreign powers and have made significantly greater contributions, thank you.
| jinju wrote: |
| Holy crap are you dense. So wait, Mercer is funny but 5 year olds playing soccer are Korean panzers on a rampage spreading xenophobia and nationalism? I think mercer was funny. I thought the kids were funny. Extending your strange "logic" we arrive at a conclusion that Mercer is ridiculing Americans. Which he isnt but then again, 5 year old kids are not the flagship for Korean nationalism.? |
I said the Korean TV announcers were nationalists, not the 5 year old kids they were acting like. Let me guess, reading wasn't your strong point. I notice how you avoided Korea's shameful response to Leno and Ohno. Yup, that's a brilliant response.
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| I'm sure the Koreans thought this was hilarious, though I doubt the elderly Mr. Ohno got the joke. Jinju, I think we have a serious difference of opinion as to what constitutes good old fashion harmless humor, and what constitutes really bad taste built on extreme nationalism, pettiness, and vindictiveness |
| jinju wrote: |
| Get a life, loser. |
Brilliant rebuttal. I have a very nice life, I get to apply my skills working around the world at a job I generally love, making very good money and it's gonna get a whole lot better when I hit Incheon Airport. Sorry that upsets you.
Last edited by Zulu on Thu May 25, 2006 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:59 am Post subject: |
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You made a huge mess of your posting so lets see if I can address your post.
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| Yeah I see so many Blacks and Whites and why hell there's a virtual cornucpia of cultures here as evident by the plethora of separate culture neighbourhoods and ethnic restaraunts. Not to mention the presence of all these different looking people in the ROK military. You still deny this? |
You dont see any blacks here because Africans didnt generally emigrate to North East Asia. You wont see many in onther Asian countries either. Again, not a KOREAN problem. Probably has a lott o do with the fact that slavery routes usually omitted Asia. Woudnt you agree?
Again, immigration of the 18th and 19th and 20th centuries was directed at North America because of a multitude of reasons that maybe you should get acquainted with. Again, you wont see those little neighborhoods and all those races in many countries in Asia. Or for that matter in Europe, save for a few of the colonial powers. It has nothing to do with Korean xenophobia and everything to do with where immigrants went and didnt go: North America and NOT Asia.
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| Singapore. But why not compare Korea to other Asian nations like India or Singapore. I suggest you pick up some recent demographic journals |
Wow, in all of Asia you came up with Singapore:) Well, that certainly proves your point:) From among 3 billion people the place you choose to discredit me with is a city built by a colonial power, with a population of 3 million:) Seriously, Im doubting your claims about being an intelligent, educated person.
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| Oh blah blah blah. Cry me a river. They made their own bed, and continue to do so. What a whiner. So Germany or France or England were never run over by foreign powers? How about Poland? The lost many more than Korea did in WW2 yet have many more Nobel Laureates. If I came from a country that had a 5000 year old history yet still hadn't invented the toilet or light bulb I wouldn't be trying to tell the world how much better Korea is all the time. They need a dose of reality/humility |
Seriously, are you this much of a simpleton? Poland does have Nobel Laureates, most are in Literature, and seeing as the Nobel Prize is mostly a European/American i.e. Western Culture thing, is it any wonder that an isolated NE Asian country didnt win many of them? Curie, yes, 2 prizes in Chemistry and Physics but notice she did most of her research in France, where she also got an education. Seriously, are you comparing Korea to the major world powers of the last 400 years and saying that because Korea isnt like them, then Korea is crap? If so, be prepared to condemn all of Asia while you are at it because this is the case for pretty much all of this continent.
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| Again you skipped Leno and Ohno. Care to adress those little points? I said the Korean TV announcers were nationalists, not the 5 year old kids they were acting like. Let me guess, reading wasn't your strong point. |
But they announcers WERENT nationalistic. Jesus Christ. Dude, Mercer, funny as he was ridiculed Americans. The announcers NEVER ridiculed the Germans. All they did was cheer when the little Koreans scored a goal in a game where they were trounced. Why should I address Leno? I already said I dont find any of that offensive, its all just COMEDY.
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| Again, a brilliat rebuttal. I think you're a tad jealous that I don't fit your sterotype of foreigner who has to stay in Korea to teach English (again, no offense to the real teachers out there). I have a very nice life, I get to apply my skills working around the world at a job I generally love, making very good money. Sorry that upsets you. |
If you had a nice life you wouldnt try so hard to prove it.[/quote] |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Zulu wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| Who said Korea had no ethnic mixing? I suggest you actually read up on Korean history. Heres a hint: Koreans are not the pure race they seem to think they are. Theres been a lot of mixing. |
(I need to post this here again as you posted while I was adding some ingfo.)
Well have fun telling them that. I actually think Korean (written) history books might be part of your problem there bud.
I see so many non-Koreans (Blacks, Whites, Dravidians, etc.) fitting in so well in Korea and why hell there's a virtual cornucopia of cultures here as evident by the plethora of cultural neighborhoods and ethnic restaraunts. Not to mention the presence of all these different looking people in the ROK military. You still deny this?
| jinju wrote: |
| Second of all, name me ONE, just ONE Asian nation that hashad the sort of immigration that North America has. . |
Okeydokey. India.
There are few places on Earth with as much genetic, linguistic, religious or cultural variety - and it's been that way for millenia prior to Europeans' colonization of the New World. But seeing as we're here why are you avoiding comparison between Korean immigration and openess, to other Asian nations like Singapore, Thailand, Japan, etc. I suggest you pick up some recent demographic and business journals.
| jinju wrote: |
| This is not just Korea we are talking about here. You cant name one because there isnt one. . |
uh yeah, I think i did that already. See above.
| jinju wrote: |
| North America is unique in this regard, even Europe cant match it. The simple fact of thematter is that immigrants went to North America. Not Asia, not Africa, not even Europe until recently. Why? Plenty of land, no mass poverty, no wars like in the "Old World" be it Europe or Asia. To say this is a Korean problem is well, continuing your stupidity.. |
As I've demonstrated, not that unique in history. What is rather unique however is the Hermit Kingdom. Even Koreans use this name to this day, and for good reason.
May I suggest read among other things you read some cultural geography and demography texts, as well as Jared Diamond's studies and then attempt to lecture me on the lack of immigration in Asia (other than in Korea, of course).
| jinju wrote: |
| Sure we do. As you may, though I doubt it, Korea only recently emerged out of 3rd world status. This is a country that has been a poor one for thousands of years. Being overrun by foreign powers didnt help. It will take time for them to get all those things. How though does that take away what they have done? They are right to be proud of their 5000 year old history. Why shouldnt they? Im sure your country has things to be proud of. Why deny the Koreans theirs? |
Oh it's we now? I thought you were Canadian? I don't deny them anything except the right to make their absurd supremist claims unchallenged. If you haven't been the victim of this constant grandstanding you are rather unique and I envy you. Korea had made its own bed, and continues to do so, so please spare me the whine excuse about how Korea is the poor victim blah blah blah. Germany, France, England, Poland, Russia and a lot of nations were overrun by foreign powers and have made significantly greater contributions, thank you.
| jinju wrote: |
| Holy crap are you dense. So wait, Mercer is funny but 5 year olds playing soccer are Korean panzers on a rampage spreading xenophobia and nationalism? I think mercer was funny. I thought the kids were funny. Extending your strange "logic" we arrive at a conclusion that Mercer is ridiculing Americans. Which he isnt but then again, 5 year old kids are not the flagship for Korean nationalism.? |
I said the Korean TV announcers were nationalists, not the 5 year old kids they were acting like. Let me guess, reading wasn't your strong point. I notice how you avoided Korea's shameful response to Leno and Ohno. Yup, that's a brilliant response.
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| I'm sure the Koreans thought this was hilarious, though I doubt the elderly Mr. Ohno got the joke. Jinju, I think we have a serious difference of opinion as to what constitutes good old fashion harmless humor, and what constitutes really bad taste built on extreme nationalism, pettiness, and vindictiveness |
| jinju wrote: |
| Get a life, loser. |
Brilliant rebuttal. I have a very nice life, I get to apply my skills working around the world at a job I generally love, making very good money and it's gonna get a whole lot better when I hit Incheon Airport. Sorry that upsets you. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Aaargggh. Jinju I'm getting tired of correcting your 'facts'. Japan, another NE Asia nation which was also fairly isloated, has won plenty of Nobels. Korea with the exception of KDJ has ZERO. What the hell does that say? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| It has nothing to do with Korean xenophobia and everything to do with where immigrants went and didnt go: North America and NOT Asia. |
That is only partly true. Immigrants go where it is easiest for them to gain work and citizenship. This is much easier in North America and Europe, than it is in Korea, or even Japan. If Korea had immigration laws similar to those of Europe and North America, it would have much higher rates of immigration, but it doesn't because it wants to preserve its racial homogeneity.
Just look at the immigration and citizenship laws. They make it very difficult to immigrate, look for work or gain residency and citizenship. The Korean system is even more strict than the Japanese one, and that is mostly due to the Korean view of preserving their 'purity'. I am not making a judgement on whether that is right or wrong, but it is simply a fact.
Korea is the most ethnically homogeneous country in Asia. Almost every country in the region, bar North Korea, is more open to foreigners, although I think this is changing, and will change drastically in the future. Korea has the lowest birth rate in the world, and is going to have to accept the presence of more and more foreigners.
In terms of the WC. I hope they do well, but even I was put off by the commentary. A little bias is to be expected, but in Korea the reporting is so one sided it verges on being unsportsmanlike. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:30 am Post subject: |
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Jinju you are amazing! So now Korea has no Nobels because the Nobel is a Western Culture thing? So then please explain Japan, Latin America, China and a shitload of other non-Western countries winning Nobels. Holy shit man, your aplogetics reach new heights of absurdity with each post.
I guess the invention/development of cell phones, computer chips (including flash), the airplane, cameras, space travel, computers, calculus, the music notation system, the Theory of Relativity, electricity, avionics, molecular biology, the scientific method, astronomy, pop music, etc. ad infinitum can only be attributed to Evil Westerners and Big Noses because of some inherant cosmic bias towards all things WASP which discriminate against all things Korean?
Does anybody else think this guy has lost his marbles? I'm going to take a crap. This guy is a hopeless case. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Jinju is like Homer on crack. |
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