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Homer
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 Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:49 am Post subject: |
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You fellas need to take a deep breath...stand back...and look what you are arguing about in these last few posts....
You were bitching at each other because of the way the uniform of the Korean national soccer team looks! 
As for the whole Nobel prize thing, I disagree with Jinju. The Nobel Prize is not a Western culture thing (even if it was a Western civilization invention and was for the most part attributed to Westerners until recently (recently being counted in decades here)).
To settle your little tussle about this issue go there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_prize#Criticism_of_the_prize and read up.
As far as immigration is concerned this seems to be a pretty simple issue.
Asian countries like Korea and Japan for example do not want immigtants and until recently did not need immigrants. Therefore their policies are exclusionary and closed when it comes to immigration.
North America was colonized by Europe and therefore was built on immigration. This was ingrained in the very fabric of the NA countries. So, immigration there is more accessible and more open.
This is pretty simple stuff fellas.
The racism issue is debatable (not my intent to do so here) so keep butting heads on that one all ya want. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Zulu wrote: |
Jinju you are amazing! So now Korea has no Nobels because the Nobel is a Western Culture thing? So then please explain Japan, Latin America, China and a *beep* of other non-Western countries winning Nobels. Holy *beep* man, your aplogetics reach new heights of absurdity with each post.
I guess the invention/development of cell phones, computer chips (including flash), the airplane, cameras, space travel, computers, calculus, the music notation system, the Theory of Relativity, electricity, avionics, molecular biology, the scientific method, astronomy, pop music, etc. ad infinitum can only be attributed to Evil Westerners and Big Noses because of some inherant cosmic bias towards all things WASP which discriminate against all things Korean?
Does anybody else think this guy has lost his marbles? I'm going to take a crap. This guy is a hopeless case. |
Are you feeling ok? Seriously, you are a thick one. Learn to read. Where did I say anyone was discriminating against anyone?
And also learn to use the quote function.
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| I see so many non-Koreans (Blacks, Whites, Dravidians, etc.) fitting in so well in Korea and why hell there's a virtual cornucopia of cultures here as evident by the plethora of cultural neighborhoods and ethnic restaraunts. Not to mention the presence of all these different looking people in the ROK military. You still deny this? |
No but then again you really dont see much of this in China or Mongolia or Japan either. Not much more than Korea. You dont see it either in about half of Europe. Korea hasnt been a very popular place for immigrants, because, well, people dont emigrate to 3rd world countries which is what Korea has been for a very long time. Korea never was seen as the land of opportunity like the US nor was it the colonial power that drew people from the colonies, which is how France, England, etc got their minoroties. And of you look at Europe, thats how it was done. Countries that didnt have colonies didnt really attract much immigration.
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| Aaargggh. Jinju I'm getting tired of correcting your 'facts'. Japan, another NE Asia nation which was also fairly isloated, has won plenty of Nobels. Korea with the exception of KDJ has ZERO. What the hell does that say? |
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| Jinju you are amazing! So now Korea has no Nobels because the Nobel is a Western Culture thing? So then please explain Japan, Latin America, China and a *beep* of other non-Western countries winning Nobels. Holy *beep* man, your aplogetics reach new heights of absurdity with each post. |
It doesnt say anything more than the fact that Japan has been for a long time a much stronger economy and continues to be. Thats all it says. But if you lok at the strength of the Japanese economy, they have a pretty low number of Nobel prizes to their credit. Whats is it, 12? Now, tell me how many Nobel prizes the Chinese have, tell me. Heres a hint: ZERO. As far as Latin America, I suspect, though I dont know, most are in Liiterature, and seeing as they use Spanish or portuguese, their literature is far more accessible than Korean literature. By Western I ofcourse meant western culture and linguistically this is where LA falls. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Asian countries like Korea and Japan for example do not want immigtants and until recently did not need immigrants. Therefore their policies are exclusionary and closed when it comes to immigration. |
But, why are their policies exclusionary and closed when it comes to immigration? I would suggest it has something to do with an attachment to racial homogeneity, and the fact that they have not been influenced by post-modern ideas about 'multiculturalism'. Put simply, they do not want to have many foreigners here. In fact, with Korea's low birth rate, it could be argued that they have a greater need for immigrants than Western societies.
Japan has been developed for a very long time, and has the same 'need' for immigrants that other developed economies have, but it has a tiny non-Japanese population, due to the fact that it has a very strict immigration regime, designed to keep the foreign presence to a minimum. Korea's is even stricter, for similar reasons.
Last edited by bigverne on Thu May 25, 2006 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| No but then again you really dont see much of this in China or Mongolia or Japan either. |
You're wrong. Something like 10% of the Chinese population is not Han Chinese. There are many minority groups, including Tibetans, Uighurs and various tribes. Even among the Han Chinese, a number of different languages are spoken. This is quite different from Korea, where 99% of the population are ethnic Koreans speaking the same language, and where there are no significant minority populations.
Also, if you go to Tokyo or Osaka, you will notice far more foreigners than on the streets of Seoul, and not just Whites but Blacks, Indians and others. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:21 am Post subject: |
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So you brought up Tibet in DEFENSE of China? Interesting. So you dont se anything wrong in how China got all those Tibetans?
Ever look at a map? China has a huge land border, it is open to migrations that have brought many different races into its territory. Same with India, another example. Now look at Korea. Spot a difference? This might take a while with this crowd. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| I was merely stating that China is quite multicultural. I wasn't stating the reasons why it was so. |
You have stated that Korea's lack of cosmopolitanism is due to historical factors that for most of its history it has been poor and has not attracted much immigration. Yet, that has not been the case for more than 10 years now. Korea is an advanced industrial economy, with a very low birthrate and one of the most stringent immigration regimes in the world, and that policy is specifically in place to keep Korea as Korean as possible. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| But, why are their policies exclusionary and closed when it comes to immigration? I would suggest it has something to do with an attachment to racial homogeneity, and the fact that they have not been influenced by post-modern ideas about 'multiculturalism'. |
Well....until recently they did not need immigration due to a high enough birth rate. They also did not (and still do not) want a mixed population. That is their choice bigverne.
Some western nations also have extremely tough immigration laws...what about those?
Consider Germany and Switzerland here.
Immigration is either necessary (as in N.A.) or desired or undesired (for various reasons). To each his own no?
Also, aren't you the one that was climbing the wall about the immigration problem of muslims in Europe? So you are for limiting muslim immigrants access to Europe and against asian nations limiting immigration? A rather tenuous position.
Now lets drop this as this debate is hijacking the thread which is about Soccer and the Korean National team in the World Cup
Last edited by Homer on Thu May 25, 2006 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
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| But, why are their policies exclusionary and closed when it comes to immigration? I would suggest it has something to do with an attachment to racial homogeneity, and the fact that they have not been influenced by post-modern ideas about 'multiculturalism'. |
Well....until recently they did not need immigration due to a high enough birth rate. They also did not (and still do not) want a mixed population. That is their choice bigverne.
Some western nations also have extremely tough immigration laws...what about those?
Consider Germany and Switzerland here.
Immigration is either necessary (as in N.A.) or desired or undesired (for various reasons). To each his own no?
Also, aren't you the one that was climbing the wall about the immigration problem of muslims in Europe? So you are for limiting muslim immigrants access to Europe and against asian nations limiting immigration? A rather tenuous position. |
Or Poland, an example brought up by that troll pretending not to be a teacher. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| They also did not (and still do not) want a mixed population. That is their choice bigverne. |
That is their choice, and I am glad you recognise the basis of this policy. It is based on a desire to maintain ethnic/racial homogeneity.
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| Consider Germany and Switzerland here. |
What are you talking about? Germany and Switzerland have very high minority populations.
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| aren't you the one that was climbing the wall about the immigration problem of muslims in Europe? So you are for limiting muslim immigrants access to Europe and against asian nations limiting immigration? A rather tenuous position. |
I am against Muslim immigration to Europe yes, due to the problems it causes. I have little problem with immigration from other regions. I think Korea should have a more open policy and could benefit from being more cosmopolitan. There is no contradiction in these positions. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
I am against Muslim immigration to Europe yes, due to the problems it causes. I have little problem with immigration from other regions. I think Korea should have a more open policy and could benefit from being more cosmopolitan. There is no contradiction in these positions. |
One thing I dislike is hypocrisy. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| What are you talking about? Germany and Switzerland have very high minority populations. |
Guest worker populations or residents...not citizens...check it out.
There is no contradiction in these positions.
Actually...there is..a big one but back to the topic...WORLD CUP |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
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| What are you talking about? Germany and Switzerland have very high minority populations. |
Guest worker populations or residents...not citizens...check it out.
There is no contradiction in these positions.
Actually...there is..a big one but back to the topic...WORLD CUP |
'Guest workers' who have lived there for generations. Anyway, Germany has a much higher number of foreigners than does Korea. Same with Switzerland.
There is no contradiction in arguing against a specific type of immigration to Europe, and arguing that Korea could benefit from more, albeit controlled, immigration. I'm not talking about an open borders immigration policy, but a more relaxed system I think, would be a good idea. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Homer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| What are you talking about? Germany and Switzerland have very high minority populations. |
Guest worker populations or residents...not citizens...check it out.
There is no contradiction in these positions.
Actually...there is..a big one but back to the topic...WORLD CUP |
'Guest workers' who have lived there for generations. Anyway, Germany has a much higher number of foreigners than does Korea. Same with Switzerland.
There is no contradiction in arguing against a specific type of immigration to Europe, and arguing that Korea could benefit from more, albeit controlled, immigration. I'm not talking about an open borders immigration policy, but a more relaxed system I think, would be a good idea. |
So its good that they lived there for generations yet arent citizens? Seems pretty bad to me. Germany has a lot of foreigners since it has been an economic powerhouse that has drawn many people for about 5 decades. Korea is a totally different case.
And your position on muslims seems is pretty racist. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Anyway, Germany has a much higher number of foreigners than does Korea. Same with Switzerland. |
This is certainly true.
As for a more open immigration policy, while it would be a good thing (I agree with you there), realistically, it will take time to get there as many asian nations are dead set against this and it dates back a long time. Countries like Korea and Japan have very homogenous populations and a policy that pretty much states they prefer it that way. Guest workers yes. Immigrants no. It is a choice.
Demographic reality might force a change in that policy/choice however. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| And your position on muslims seems is pretty racist. |
Except that Muslims are not a race. |
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