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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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rrlawyer3
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
Several law instituions changed the wording of their basic law degree to 'JD'. This doesn't necessarily mean that he has a doctorate in law.
I would suggest that you go to the labor board with this. Also, as someone suggested, your employer might just be posturing. Pretty common. Sounds like what he is doing is legally sketchy, so I wouldnt' be surprised if he wanted to stay under the radar.
If he had indeed gotten you the E2, you wouldn't even really have a problem. Is it possible to just get that out of the way and finish up the contract?
Lastly, with a JD, you could probably score a university position with some ease. You'd get better hours, better vacation, and, from the sounds of it, a lot less stress. Something to think about. |
Great advice. Why would someone sue me for breaching a contract that show he was guilty of working me without an E2. Brillliant. Very keen insight. Thanks. I'lll just get a Cass and play my guitar, that should mellow me out. Much appreciated! |
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rrlawyer3
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| rothkowitz wrote: |
wtf?
You say you have a Doctorate of Laws and you're asking for advice here after having been mislead?
Are you for real?I doubt it very much. |
Did you go to school? If so, perhaps you may recall that that the English curriculum contains little if any education on Korean contract law. I have a Doctorate in law, will you let me take out your tonsils? I mean, gee, someone with a Doctorate has pretty much learned all there is to know about the world, right?
I got some very kind responses, but your comment sounds like the intellectual equivalent of "peni* envy." Sorry your BA in band didn't work out for you. Open a book, open your mind or close your mouth.
I guess people with Doctorates don't deserve respect or help. Would you have left that post for a newbie asking for help because he was out of his element? Just because I am an attorney does not mean I am not a person. Are you for real? I don't know. I know Compassion is real man. Do you have it? I doubt it very much.
Good luck with that puny little flute of yours. I have to assume your BA is in band. If it is in English, you might want to take a refresher course.
QUOTE:
"You say you have a Doctorate of Laws and you're asking for advice here after having been MISLEAD?
Are you for REAL?I doubt it very much." - Do you teach like this to your students? |
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rothkowitz
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Yes,it is bizarre that someone claiming to have a Phd couldn't have the wherewithall to sort themselves out without making a call for his/her hand to be held.
I did a masters but I don't think I would succeed in doing a PhD...or it would take too long.
You are saying you have a PhD aren't you?Then where are the research skills that would have got you out of this position?That's what seemed so odd to me.And to others posters.
I wasn't attacking you, though maybe I was a little abrupt. |
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rrlawyer3
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| rothkowitz wrote: |
Yes,it is bizarre that someone claiming to have a Phd couldn't have the wherewithall to sort themselves out without making a call for his/her hand to be held.
I did a masters but I don't think I would succeed in doing a PhD...or it would take too long.
You are saying you have a PhD aren't you?Then where are the research skills that would have got you out of this position?That's what seemed so odd to me.And to others posters.
I wasn't attacking you, though maybe I was a little abrupt. |
Now I feel like the terd in the punchbowl. I was a defensive jerk in response. This whole thing has me a little emotional and my comments were uncalled for. I owe you an apology and I hope you accept.
I have been researching for days but I am afraid of going directly to labor or immigration b/c I KNOW that it was stupid of me to work without an E2 in my hand. I mean REALLY stupid. The guy and his wife have money flying out their butt. They were introducing me to top attorneys, Kaist, Samsung, and buying me $100 dinners. I was a willing fool and I am sorry for externalizing my anger.
It seems that nearly all Korean links are dead. The US links are actually the best and updated, but they don't deal with what happens to ME. There is no complete Korean code in English and the dude literally cleaned me out. I can't hire an attorney. $0 in my account. $0 cash and only credit cards.
Some guy said I am living off of his money. That is not true. He merely took over the key money from my first employer. That money never touched my hands and I have no access to it.
I will take the advice of the common sense answer of renting, getting key money back, paying the guy and going home. I can get another law job, save up money and come back next year a little wiser and with a bigger nest egg.
Thanks man and again, the "puny flute" thing was kind of funny until I realized you weren't a jerk. Now I am the one left holding the Piccolo.
PS: The grammar mistakes were petty � I was just taking my jerkiness to an exponential level. Double sorry. Thanks for clarifying. I know the vast number here are here to HELP and I felt stupid asking because....well, I'm an attorney - why can't I figure this out for myself. OH, that was your point. It was a good one at that. Peace. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| rrlawyer3 wrote: |
| rothkowitz wrote: |
wtf?
You say you have a Doctorate of Laws and you're asking for advice here after having been mislead?
Are you for real?I doubt it very much. |
Did you go to school? If so, perhaps you may recall that that the English curriculum contains little if any education on Korean contract law. I have a Doctorate in law, will you let me take out your tonsils? I mean, gee, someone with a Doctorate has pretty much learned all there is to know about the world, right?
I got some very kind responses, but your comment sounds like the intellectual equivalent of "peni* envy." Sorry your BA in band didn't work out for you. Open a book, open your mind or close your mouth. |
Doesnt look like your doctorate worked out very well for you, either. People arent slagging you because you asked a question about cooking. You have a law degree and asked a bunch of BA's for legal advice. Not taking out tonsils, but law. Seriously, who here knows about Korean contract law? |
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cubanlord

Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Location: In Japan!
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:19 am Post subject: Re: FACING PROSECUTION BECAUSE MY EMPLOYER LIED TO ME - HELP |
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| rrlawyer3 wrote: |
I am coming here for help. I know I screwed up, so please do not respond just to tell me I am an idiot. I already feel like one. I am just hoping someone with a friendly heart will just give me some friendly feedback. PLEASE DON'T KICK A MAN WHEN HE IS DOWN. I KNOW IT IS TEMPTING. HECK, THAT IS WHEN HE IS CLOSEST TO YOUR FEET. BUT PLEASE HAVE A LITTLE MERCY. I JUST NEED ADVICE ON WHERE TO GO OR EVEN SOME CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. JUST PLEASE LAY OFF THE HATE.
I had a good job, but it had a 7am to 10pm split. I quit my job because a new employer offered to better deal with block shifts and higher pay. He lent me the money to pay my contract off.
I told the old employer about everything and they were very cool. We still have lunch together - we are friends. I gave my 45 days notice, didn't miss a class and had high student ratings. I even got a letter of release and recommendation.
I gave all my E2 material to the new employer. He is an attorney in the US and Korea and said he could take care of it. I don't know Korean law and he seemed very trustworthy and kind. He then began "outsourcing" and had me signing vouchers for SNU and working at Samsung. My mistake, I thought attorneys were trustworthy (JOKE).
I was also to lecture at Kaist and set up a program to help Korean attorneys get a JD.
I "quit" the job because I was afraid it wasn't legal. I went to my old employer and he said "man, you are in trouble; why didn't he get you an E2?" I said I thought he did since he still had me using my certificate of alien registration number. He advised me NOT to sign another thing, leave and re-enter so I could talk with him.
Yes, I went to law school, but not in Korea. A JD does not make me a genius at international law. I relied on good people here, but they have run out of ideas.
This seemed like Basic English teaching Academy contract stuff. I shuffled papers for an administrative agency. I was a low level regulator monitoring Qwest and a few utilities. I was a bored beaurocrat.
I left to Fukuoka and re-entered. The new employer is now threatening to sue me for "breach of contract."
I came here because we lost 3 family members in the Korean War and I felt a bond with the country. Could someone respond who has something to say besides "you are an idiot?"
THIS COUNTRY HAS SUCH HARD WORKING STUDENTS, LOW CRIME AND GOOD WILLED PEOPLE. I GOT SICK OF SHUFFLING PAPERS AND DECIDED TO DO SOMETHING BETTER WITH MY LIFE. I KNOW I SCREWED UP - I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY MY QUESTION GENERATED SUCH HATEFUL RESPONSES.
ADMISSION: I acted without thinking. I trusted, but I asked my FIRST employer before making any rash leap of faith. I FOLLOWED THE ADVICE OF A RECRUITER WITH 10 YRS EXPERIENCE. I didn't lie to anybody.
The NEW employer wants his money back and I CAN SEE HIS POINT. I wish I could pay him. I can't. The landlord has it in key money. I don't have it to give back. I PROMISED HIM I WOULD RETURN IT WHEN MY LEASE IS UP AND WILL NOT LIE TO HIM EITHER.
I FEEL THIS COMES DOWN TO A SIMPLE E2 WORK VISA QUESTION: Is a foreign worker obliged to honor a contract when the new employer fails to obtain the E2 to allow the employee to work? |
I would say (someone correct me if i am wrong) that if he were to try and sue you or what not, he too would get into trouble for having you work for him illegally. Sounds like he is bluffing!!! |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:01 am Post subject: Re: FACING PROSECUTION BECAUSE MY EMPLOYER LIED TO ME - HELP |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
I would say (someone correct me if i am wrong) that if he were to try and sue you or what not, he too would get into trouble for having you work for him illegally. Sounds like he is bluffing!!! |
That's exactly what I suspected as well.
There is a lot about your situation that is not clear, but I'll do the best I can based on what I can discern through all the mudslinging..
What exactly is he planning on "prosecuting" you for? Refusing to work for him? Breach of contract? Or is there some kind of criminal offense he has, or thinks he has, dirt on you for?
What is your visa status now? Are you on a tourist visa? The E2 sponsored by your previous employer? Overstaying your expired tourist visa? Or on a new work visa sponsored by your new employer?
You said you gave this new employer your "E2 materials". Does this mean both your original Bachelors and JD? Is he holding one or both of them?
I'm going to take a shot in the dark and assume that you are not on a new E2 visa. If that is the case, there is absolutely nothing your boss can do to prevent you from getting a new job and E2 work visa without admitting to hiring you illegally and exposing himself to prosecution by Immigration.
If you have either of your original diplomas, just get a new legal job. You will only need to show one of them to Immigration.
If you gave him both, try to get them back, or get a replacement degree from one or both of your universities (whichever will do it fastest).
Do you actually owe this guy money for some reason? Money that you've borrowed from him? If so, pay it back as soon as you can. You don't mention having borrowed money, so I think that point is moot.
If you've signed an employment contract, but he hasn't secured a work visa for you, that contract is worth doodly squat. I'm pretty sure that any contract that requires you to do something illegal is unenforceable in Korea, just like it would be the US.
If he actually has dirt on you for a criminal offense (and it doesn't sound like he does), ignore all of the above, cut your losses, and just leave the country.
Does that help? If not, you'll have to clarify your situation further. |
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Lemonade

Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| left to Fukuoka and re-entered. The new employer is now threatening to sue me for "breach of contract." |
Wait a minute here. You mean you went all the way over to Fukuoka and you somehow forgot to get an E2 visa? What's up with that? Why did you go all the way over to Fukuoka - to get a tourist visa and then WORK on a TOURIST visa? It doesn't take a lawyer to know that you can't WORK on a TOURIST visa because tourist visas are for tourists.
I'm no lawyer here or anywhere, but I do know that you can't sue someone for "breach of contract" when you didn't even have a contract to begin with. If what you signed included breaking the law, it is not a legally viable contract that he can hold you to in any court of law. You should know this, you are the Juris Doctor.
You are on these boards asking a lot of people for compassion. How many times have lawyers shown ME compassion in my life? Only one man only one out of the countless ones I've come across in my life for personal, professional or legal advice reasons. Most of them wanted my money, LOTS of MY money for their legal advice. Now a lawyer wants FREE legal advice from us. That sure is a twist! My bill is $150.00 per hour and my retainer fee is $5,000. I'll send you the bill in the mail, but my compassion will cost ya extra. Oh, and I don't do trial law so if this makes it to court, you'll have to seek counsel elsewhere to take on your case. I can provide you with a referal for that [nice spiff for me]. So, how good is your credit? You said you have credit cards? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: |
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rrlawyer3,
It sounds like you are currently in Korea on a tourist visa with no money and no job. You're worried and crying in your beer on Dave's Bar and Cafe. Here's what you need to do:
Post an ad on Dave's above where it says "Post Your Resume". Write a nice letter and link to a simple resume and photo. You'll get 30 - 60 replys who all want to hire you right away. Check them out. Talk to them. Visit a couple. REMEMBER that relationships are more important than contracts. Get a new job. If you want, you can post your contract on here to have some old hands review it for you. It should take no more than week to get a new job. Your new boss should be able to help with housing and get you out of the mess you got yourself into. Before you start working, you have to go on a visa run to Japan. Do not work without an E2 visa in your passport.
Welcome to Korea. |
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Grotto

Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I smell troll bait!
Immature troll bait at that! |
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Otus
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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This could all be troll bait, but anyway, I have a couple of questions.
In NZ I did a law intermediate and could have completed an LLB in four years. Instead, I did a BA and MA
In the States, I gather you can do a JD (3 years) after finishing undergrad. school and then gain admission to the bar by way of public exam. I gather you can also do some kind of pre-law major.
In NZ, Australia, UK, you can go on to do a Masters, or Phd. Masters qualification is termed LLM, PhD would be termed 'Doctorate in Law' or something to that effect. It could also be in jurisprudence at both a Masters and Doctorate level.
I have also seen some American lawyers use the term LLM or LLB. Is this the same as a JD?
If you do graduate work in law school in the States, is the qualification also termed a JD? How would you distinguish it from the basic 3 year qualification? |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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umm, how come us non-lawyers were able to see something as obvious as, "can't sue for breach of contract without a contract"? Perhaps oral contract? If you thought of that though, then you must also realize how hard that is to prove...
Doesn't 'lawyering' have a lot to do with rhetoric? Your level of writing, simple sentence structure, and some of the mistakes (ex: I PROMISED HIM I WOULD RETURN IT WHEN MY LEASE IS UP AND WILL NOT LIE TO HIM EITHER.), suggest....I'm not sure. Certainly not a lawyer.....
You also apologized too much, and way too hard.
sniff sniff, methinks something stinks. |
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bellum99

Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: don't need to know
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: |
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I have some answers for you:
1: Let him sue you. This will probably never happen because of the time and cost but if it does then so what. All he can get is his share of the money from the house. He may lock the house (put a lien) but that would be stupid for him to do. Even if you lose in court you can appeal (3 times) and not show up for meetings many times and then delay delay delay everything. Trust me, he doesn't want to go to court.
2: Get a new job. You don't have an E2 job and the new boss didn't file the papers, so you can get a new visa and a new job. You said you have a LOR. Do that and move to a new address without telling him or anyone.
(Don't call him from the new home phone).
3: Don't worry about it. He won't want to go into court talking about that contract since it is illegal and he couldn't hire you anyway. I tell you he just being a normal Korean business man (all huff and puff but nothing to back it up). When they know they don't have a leg to stand on they usually try to bluff.
4: YOU CAN GO TO JAPAN!!!!!!! or another country. He hasn't blocked you from leaving Korea because he has to have a criminal case to do that and he only has a civil one (weak at best).
The most important thing to do is RELAX. Really relax and just let things go, but get a new house and a new job now. In a few weeks he will stop being an idiot and he will want to arrange something. |
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jmbran11
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Location: U.S.
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: Not a PhD |
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A J.D. is not a PhD. Why does everyone keep saying that? A law degree is different, not a PhD. Very annoying.
And, also irrelevant to the question at hand.
Hasn't anyone learned from the situation here that a degree is no reflection upon one's intelligence, or knowlege, or potential for success.
Only, perhaps, one's perseverance, and possibly wealth.
Give the guy a break, and help him out if you can. Or leave him alone. Everyone *bleeps* up. |
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coolsage
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| All you have left is a guitar and a blow-up-bed? I smell a country- and -western song about to be born. |
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