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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| And your position on muslims seems is pretty racist. |
Except that Muslims are not a race. |
fine, its bigoted. Feel better? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Countries like Korea and Japan have very homogenous populations and a policy that pretty much states they prefer it that way. |
Are you comfortable with this policy? Because it is the exact same immigration policy that certain political parties in the West advocate. These are the same parties that are usually deemed 'racist', 'extreme' or even 'facist'. I am sure you would be the first to scream racist if a Western country wanted to maintain its ethnic/racial homogeneity. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| fine, its bigoted. Feel better? |
It's not bigoted, it's just common sense. I do not feel that Europe has an obligation to allow immigration of people who are so unwilling to integrate and adapt.
When you visit Europe be sure to visit the self-segregated Muslim ghettoes of Malmo, Rotterdam and Bradford. Then, you'll understand what a failure Muslim immigration has been and why many people oppose it. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| fine, its bigoted. Feel better? |
It's not bigoted, it's just common sense. I do not feel that Europe has an obligation to allow immigration of people who are so unwilling to integrate and adapt.
When you visit Europe be sure to visit the self-segregated Muslim ghettoes of Malmo, Rotterdam and Bradford. Then, you'll understand what a failure Muslim immigration has been and why many people oppose it. |
It's not bigoted, it's just common sense. I do not feel that Korea has an obligation to allow immigration of people who are so unwilling to integrate and adapt.
When you visit Korea be sure to visit the self-segregated foreign ghettoes of Itaewon. Then, you'll understand what a failure foreign immigration has been and why many people oppose it. Those damn foreigners cant even speak the language and all they do is complain how bad Korea is. Who needs them? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| When you visit Korea be sure to visit the self-segregated foreign ghettoes of Itaewon. |
You are comparing one district, where the majority of residents are Korean, to huge urban areas where Muslims number in the hundreds of thousands.
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| Then, you'll understand what a failure foreign immigration has been and why many people oppose it. |
Is this what you actually believe? What is your position on Korean immigration policy? Does it not piss you off that Koreans can go to your country, in their hundreds of thousands with relative ease, whereas Korea is so closed to foreigners? |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| When you visit Korea be sure to visit the self-segregated foreign ghettoes of Itaewon. |
You are comparing one district, where the majority of residents are Korean, to huge urban areas where Muslims number in the hundreds of thousands.
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| Then, you'll understand what a failure foreign immigration has been and why many people oppose it. |
Is this what you actually believe? What is your position on Korean immigration policy? Does it not piss you off that Koreans can go to your country, in their hundreds of thousands with relative ease, whereas Korea is so closed to foreigners? |
You are as thick as zulu teachuh.
No, its not what I believe but it is what you believe since they are your words. All I did was substitute Korea for Europe. Dont tell me your position is different based on geography. That woud be .... hypocritical.
Its true though that foreigners dont integrate into Korean society. How many speak Korean? Whats the difference between us and muslims in Europe?
Does it piss me off? No. I dont know anyone from my country who would want to immigrate to Korea. Except me and Ive got permanent residency. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Its true though that foreigners dont integrate into Korean society. How many speak Korean? Whats the difference between us and muslims in Europe? |
You cannot compare the mass immigration of millions of Muslims to the temporary immigration of a few thousand foreigners to Korea, many of whom only stay for a few years. By the way, many immigrants from SE Asia to Korea do speak Korean, often quite well. However, the laws prevent them from participating fully in life here.
I am not arguing that Korea should open its doors to all and sundry, like we have done in Europe, where it has caused many problems, but I do think they could be a bit more open. What do you think? |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Bigverne....while jinju's example may be faulty...look up Vancouver and the problem they have had with massive chinese immigration there and how un-integrated the new immigrants are.
Then look to many major US cities and at the ethnic pockets that crop up along ethnic lines.
What to do about this?
You cannot pick out one group of immigrants and turn them away as bad, while preaching for open immigration (in my opinion anyway). |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| You cannot pick out one group of immigrants and turn them away as bad, while preaching for open immigration (in my opinion anyway). |
Yes, you can. Moreover, I am not arguing for an open immigration policy. I am saying that Korea could benefit from having a slightly more open immigration and residency policy. I do not think Korea should imitate the West in pursuing mass immigration and multiculturalism, however. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Bigverne....while jinju's example may be faulty...look up Vancouver and the problem they have had with massive chinese immigration there and how un-integrated the new immigrants are.
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Perhaps not the first generation, but the 2nd is fairly well integrated. The 3rd? As canadian as you are. I admit I'm assuming chinese in vancouver are like those here in the SF Bay Area.
Compare that to your average north african immigrant family in europe and those chinese canadians are looking pretty good.
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| You cannot pick out one group of immigrants and turn them away as bad, while preaching for open immigration (in my opinion anyway). |
That is true. |
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Bo Peabody
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| How the *beep* did this thread end up here? |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
As for the whole Nobel prize thing, I disagree with Jinju. The Nobel Prize is not a Western culture thing (even if it was a Western civilization invention and was for the most part attributed to Westerners until recently (recently being counted in decades here)).
To settle your little tussle about this issue go there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_prize#Criticism_of_the_prize nd read up.
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Homer, what does that link have to do with settling the 'tussle'? It only talks about the well known criticisms regarding posthumous awards etc. I didn't see a section there under the heading 'How Evil Westerners Stole All of Korea's Science Nobels" . |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Ever look at a map? China has a huge land border, it is open to migrations that have brought many different races into its territory. Same with India, another example. Now look at Korea. Spot a difference? This might take a while with this crowd. |
Yeah jinju, it's all about land borders  which is why England has such a 'monocultural' all-white society.
Korea, the last time I checked, had both land and sea borders. They even have this thing called an international airport where people can fly in on giant flying machines. Face it, Korea could have opened up long ago...if they had wanted to. However I'll grant you it could also be that not too many foreign people actually want to immigrate here.
I notice how you skipped my mention of India again but I'll make sure to mention the lack of minorities in China to the massive Uygur, Zhuang and Hui communities in South Korea. 
Regarding your Nobel arguments all I can say is it could be a fulltime job being your fact-checker Jinju. Notice any science awards here?
Argentina
Adolfo P�rez Esquivel, Peace, 1980
Bernardo Houssay, Physiology or Medicine, 1947
Carlos Saavedra Lamas, Peace, 1936
Luis Federico Leloir, Chemistry, 1970
C�sar Milstein*, Physiology or Medicine, 1984
But how can that be, Jinju, when Korea's "3rd World" economy is bigger than Argentina's?
And just for fun let's look at oh...say....Finland. A country whose language is 'so similar' to English, and with a population of what, only 5 million compared to Korea's 45 million:
Finland
Ragnar Granit*, Physiology or Medicine, 1967
Frans Eemil Sillanp��, Literature, 1939
Artturi Ilmari Virtanen, Chemistry, 1945
China at least has several people who emigrated from or fled China who have won the Nobel prize in Science or Literature (such as Gao Xinxiang). |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| When you visit Korea be sure to visit the self-segregated foreign ghettoes of Itaewon. Then, you'll understand what a failure foreign immigration has been and why many people oppose it. Those damn foreigners cant even speak the language and all they do is complain how bad Korea is. Who needs them? |
ITAEWON- HUB OF KOREA! (TM)
I suspect so many foreigners like to hang out in places like Itaewon not because they are racists or hate other cultures as you imply. Speaking for myself, I love Itaewon because it has so much more international variety there than anywhere else in the entire country and I get pretty tired of the same old cuisine limitations in every other Korean city/district.
In Itaewon you can see Nigerians, British, Pakistani, Irish, Thai, French, Indonesians, Italians, Moroccans, Turks, Americans, Indians, Canadians, Kurds, Chinese, Japanese, Mongolians and Koreans all on the same street! And all that great food. It's not London or New York but it sure is a nice change. It would be nicer if such international variety were present and as welcome in places other than just the "self-segregated foreign ghettoes of Itaewon."
DAMN FOREIGNERS - SPEAK KOREAN OR GET OUT!
Jinju, I agree that if you plan on becoming a Korean citizen and keeping your family here you should certainly make an effort to learn the language. However this represents a very small minority of foreigners. I believe most of the foreigners in South Korea were asked to come here by Korean businesses, education institutions and the Korean government to
1) Teach English to Korean people, for only a year or two, in order to help their economic development. These language professionals are not here to 'learn Korean'. Is speaking Korean a prerequisite to their employment? I doubt it.
2) Assist Korea's military forces. Again, I don't believe speaking Korean is a requirement of the job. Given the unreasonable and violent reactions of so many Koreans to those US servicemen why would you expect them to invest in the language if they experience this reaction and have little intention of staying when their tour of duty expires?
Of course there are many 3D workers and also expat business people here, some long-term (who speak at least some Korean) and some short-term who use English - the internationally accepted language of business.
Unlike the vast numbers of Koreans who emigrate to North America or Europe with the intention of becoming citizens, the vast majority of foreigners in Korea have little intention of becoming a Korean citizen, and most leave after a year or two. So again why invest in the language if you have no intention of staying, especially if you feel so many people resent your presence in their country? |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| It`s perfectly fine to want "desirable" immigrants, ie educated people who will be working, not on welfare, and not comitting crime. Screening out people on this basis is fine. That is not what Korea does. It screens, or makes it hard to settle, for a completely different reason, that being the preservation of ethnic purity. As Homer keeps saying, it`s thier choice. The motivation, though, is questionable at best, and backwards at worst. |
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