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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| How often do you use Korean in class? |
| Never, I don't know any |
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15% |
[ 6 ] |
| I use it for explaining vocabulary sometimes |
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50% |
[ 19 ] |
| I use it from time to time, but get laughed at |
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13% |
[ 5 ] |
| My lessons are mostly in Korean these days |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other |
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21% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 38 |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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 Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Bosintang that using Korean is unnecessary. It detracts from the main lesson. There are times I use Korean in the class however. I use it to help the students UNLEARN all the incorrect translations that they have picked up from Korean and Native English speaking teachers who think they know how to translate between these two languages but do not!
Thousands of the words in the Korean/English dictionary are mistranslated. The translations the public schools are using are often just wrong.
Teaching English in English works better if you are prepared to teach and can motivate your students with interesting lessons that match the students' levels.
Teaching translations is completely irresponsible unless you have sorted out the errors that are pervasive in Korea. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Hello, Bosintang!
I could see why advanced classes could necessitate either spoken L1 or the dictionary. Advanced classes could involve more abstract topics.
When the discussion is about concrete nouns, a simple flash card could do the trick. Not so when we are in a maze of adjectives and adverbs.
I think you and I will always agree on what's a flower and what's a rock, but we might not agree on what's pulchritudinous and what's effluvious.
Hello, Demophobe!
Hello, Njord!
A number of times, I have asked Korean English teachers what they have against English students practicing English and Korean students practicing Korean, but I have never gotten a straight answer.
Hello, Jamespulis3!
When a student uses a Korean word, I feign ignorance.
"I'm sorry, I don't know what a 연필 is."
Then I turn to the class and say, "Could someone tell me what a 연필 is?"
Then I feign amazement.
"Oh, so 연필 means pencil!"
Then I turn to the offending student and say, "So the English word is 'pencil.' Can you remember that next time?"
Hello, Ontheway!
Where the heck do they get the idea that a 고구마 is the same thing as a sweet potato?
Hello, Plattwaz!
My students also get a charge out of saying, "Teacher, hangukmal!"
One time a student said that when I used the word supermarket.
Apparently, he didn't know that 수퍼마켓 was an English borrowing.
They also say "Teacher, hangukmal" when I sing a song on do-re-mi.
Then I get out a map and show them that do-re-mi is neither Korean nor English, but Italian.
PS I wish they would tell the Korean teachers that, don't you? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| But the Korean 수퍼 isn't "super" it's a convenience store. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| But the Korean 수퍼 isn't "super" it's a convenience store. |
I don't have Korean typing installed on this computer, but anyway, it's "syu" not "su". |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Yes, but 슈 OR 수 either way it's Konglishi.
Koreans say Nyou York but I say New York. 뉴 누.
Someone needs to rip up the old K/E dictionaries and start over, and forget transliterations.
Teach English in English. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
I agree with Bosintang that using Korean is unnecessary. It detracts from the main lesson. There are times I use Korean in the class however. I use it to help the students UNLEARN all the incorrect translations that they have picked up from Korean and Native English speaking teachers who think they know how to translate between these two languages but do not!
Thousands of the words in the Korean/English dictionary are mistranslated. The translations the public schools are using are often just wrong.
Teaching English in English works better if you are prepared to teach and can motivate your students with interesting lessons that match the students' levels.
Teaching translations is completely irresponsible unless you have sorted out the errors that are pervasive in Korea. |
I'm not so sure it's irresponsible. If you go out of your way to explain using a dictionary and using examples and pictures, it's a very responsible thing. You want to make sure the students understand. Many times we're faced with situations where it's just too hard to explain without some Korean help. Sure, we could live in a perfect level where 100% of the material can be explained without using Korean, but that's just not the case. You do, however, have to be careful with vocabulary and make sure you are not teaching the wrong thing, but it's better than not trying or wasting time with only hand gestures and drawings.
When using Korean, it's always good to have some sort of backup plan. Like a Korean.
Sure, there are instances where I've translated something wrong, but it's hardly something drastic. Using Korean to quickly explain things does more good than harm. It provides an easy flow into the lesson where you can concentrate on the English after there's an assurance of understanding of what is being taught. Then you can work on sentence structure and pronunciation.
Last edited by jacl on Sat May 27, 2006 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Yes, but 슈 OR 수 either way it's Konglishi.
Koreans say Nyou York but I say New York. 뉴 누.
Someone needs to rip up the old K/E dictionaries and start over, and forget transliterations.
Teach English in English. |
I use johnwasham.com in my classroom. It breaks down different ways words can be used. Not all words are there, however. I can usually work out what the correct translation is, but I analyse it with my students. If we all really don't know what the correct translation is or if using synonyms doesn't help, I drop it and try to explain without the dictionary. Not 100% successful, but I can run it by my boss later since he teaches as well. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: |
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If you are using a Korean/English dictionary for translations then you are probably teaching incorrect translations. There are thousands of errors. Unless you have somehow verified that the translation is correct there is a good chance it is not.
Any words you are teaching your students can be explained in English. If your students cannot understand your explanation then you need to do more class preparation. Maybe the material is beyond the appropriate level for the students. Maybe the material is beyond your ability to teach. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Yes, but 슈 OR 수 either way it's Konglishi.
Koreans say Nyou York but I say New York. 뉴 누.
Someone needs to rip up the old K/E dictionaries and start over, and forget transliterations.
Teach English in English. |
Well, yeah. Teaching konglish (no capital "k") is obviously unacceptable.
Last edited by jacl on Sat May 27, 2006 8:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: |
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jacl,
I tried six words on your website dictionary. I got a 50% error rate on the translations. Of course this is a tiny sample and I used words that are commonly wrong in the K/E dictionaries, so perhaps that means they've corrected about half of the common mistakes. Still, this dictionary is not suitable for teaching English. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: |
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It's appropriate for most classes because most are beginner to low intermediate, but for higher level classes translation has pitfalls, i.e. many words don't translate well or at all, so students need to get used to thinking in L2.
I like what one poster said about comparing genres in Korean and English for cultural differences but so far I haven't had a class of that sort of advanced level. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
jacl,
I tried six words on your website dictionary. I got a 50% error rate on the translations. Of course this is a tiny sample and I used words that are commonly wrong in the K/E dictionaries, so perhaps that means they've corrected about half of the common mistakes. Still, this dictionary is not suitable for teaching English. |
Oh, yeah. What words? Why isn't it suitable? I use it, but it's not my bible or anything. Seems to do the trick for a lot of vocabulary. Albeit, you have to be somewhat careful, but it's not harmful. Rather helpful, really.
You're exaggerating. Not suitable for teaching English  . Give me a fucking break. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| According to Google, 수펍마케트 gets 3060 points and 슈퍼마케트 gets 3800 points. |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
I could see why advanced classes could necessitate either spoken L1 or the dictionary. Advanced classes could involve more abstract topics.
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Yes, I mentioned that already.
| jacl wrote: |
Sure, we could live in a perfect level where 100% of the material can be explained without using Korean, but that's just not the case. |
We are not teaching them to be native speakers, we're teaching them to be speakers of a foreign language. That means the students have to learn to deal with uncertainty and learn that they're not going to -- and nor do they need to -- know everything perfectly. They need to learn to be creative with the language, experiment, and learn to perform beyond their competence.
| Privateer wrote: |
It's appropriate for most classes because most are beginner to low intermediate, but for higher level classes translation has pitfalls, i.e. many words don't translate well or at all, so students need to get used to thinking in L2.
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If anything, I think its the opposite. Beginner to low-intermediates are the students the most in need of having the L1 removed as a psycological safety net or barrier.
One more point. Every time you speak Korean in class, you are depriving the children to have real interaction with a real native English speaker. Real native speakers don't have the children's L1 as a safety net. YOu are only devaluing yourself by speaking KOrean, and only encouraging Korean educators to disrepect experience and hire fresh "non-Koreanised" teachers. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
| YOu are only devaluing yourself by speaking KOrean, and only encouraging Korean educators to disrepect experience and hire fresh "non-Koreanised" teachers. |
This is not correct. My Korean ability has gotten me more money, more independence and jobs, private classes, from parents who want their child to be working with someone who can speak Korean if a situation arises where it is necessary.
I get quite a bit of respect from my employers and people at the BOE (who often discuss my performance with me after my all-too-often demo classes) for being able to communicate with them. My school doesn't have anyone who can communicate in English well, and 95% of all discussions with my co-workers are conducted in Korean. They are always thankful I can do this, as they can see that having someone who was unable to speak Korean would be a great burden to them.
I worked at a public school 2 years ago who hired me privately, that is, not through GEPIK. The following year, they went the GEPIK route, but were unable to retain me as they couldn't choose their own teacher; one was assigned to them. They got a Canadian girl, a great person, but was a total novice, straight from university in Canada.
The head teacher contacted me within weeks, asking me to teach her a little Korean and help her in various ways. A couple of months ago, they contacted me again about returning to the school in August, as they wanted someone who could speak Korean, and through this, had a deeper understanding of Korean learners and the problems they commonly face.
Interestingly, my old students complained not about her teaching (the school decided that she would need a co-teacher to explain and assist in Korean) but about being unable to get to know her at all, beyond what color/food she likes.
So, in my case, I have experienced the exact opposite of what you said.
Korean in the classroom should be as minimal as possible, with no Korean being the best solution. I think we agree on this point. I invite you to come to my school and try to teach purely in English for a week and you will soon discover that sometimes, they just need Korean. |
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