Korean Job Discussion Forums

[crimsonlily]

OP here. You know - kids don't lie. Kids at my school will be crying because a gym teacher hit them 'cause they lost a game, and they say "나바요" about the gym teacher. I can be their favorite "softy," kind teacher while I'm here. (you know - candy does motivate, maybe not as well as a beating but one person can't fully control another - that's what beating as all about) BUT once I leave there will still be physical punishment. Some parents and teachers do it, whether it's legal or not. This is OUT OF CONTROL. I don't know who said that there's not fighting here, but boys often fight and there was a major incident where a student tried to kill another student. He was put in jail due to his attempt at murder. This kid was beaten at home and at school and everyone acted like he was crazy - but is he really? He was just doing what had always been done to him. Yuck! Is there any positive means to dealing with this?

[Milwaukiedave]

I've never worked at a public school, but am starting at one next month. I don't agree with corporal punishment, but at the same time I have to agree with what someone said, who is going to believe me? Maybe it won't be an issue at my school, but I'm certainly not going to rock the boat if it is.

When I worked at a hogwan just outside of Daegu, one of the Korean teachers often would quiz the students on spelling words or something else. When they got it wrong, whack with the ruler.

I remember one afternoon when a elementry school kid (his name was Tony) was being bad. I took him down to the office. The kid literally flipped out and hit (although not very hard) one of the Korean teachers. I was sitting at my desk grading papers and the whole thing happened so fast I was just shocked. He ran out of the school afterward.

Like someone said, violence begets violence. People won't have to wonder why Korea has more violent crime (assults, murders etc) years from now.

[oldfatfarang]

Thankfully, nobody hits kids at my hakwon. And they stopped the torture of 'kneeling with hands in the air' - after my scathing criticism (I hope for good).

Can someone please tell me - I must be slow, why is it illegal to 'torture' adults - and not children?
Why do Western people condemn the torture of adults - and completely ignore the beating and torture of children.
Please help me - am I missing something here????

Malaysia and Arab-muslim countries receive regular condemnation for their flogging and torture of adults (and especially women).

I believe the USA army even prosecuted a corporal??? for abusing and torturing suspected muslim terrorists. Was her torture of prisoners (making them adopt painful postures) wrong because they were black, muslims, or adults ?


But to return to topic, how can ANY WESTERN 'TEACHER' sit in a classroom and watch a Korean 'teacher' beat a child (or torture them) without saying SOMETHING?

Any 'teacher' who beats a kid is a second rate loser - and should be told so. By calling them, you are not undermining their 'authority'. They don't have any 'authority' - except the fear of pain.

I know students respond to my 'no hitting' classroom rule, i.e., I don't hit my students, and my students are not allowed to hit each other (even 'friendly' hitting). However, I sometimes have to write the 'no hitting' rule on the board and 'friendly threaten' a kid with expulsion from class if they hit their classmates. And, sadly, I have had to refuse to teach 2 kids (for rascist rude remarks).

But, that said, these students are LEARNING TO SPEAK ENGLISH AND THEY have fun learning it. They are not frightened or worried about being bullied by other students or being punished by the teacher. Heck, some of them get upset when I go on vacation and they can not come to class. And yes, 3 different classes brought food and chocolates for the 'teacher' last week.

Not a stick in sight. Go figure.

I'd appreciate some help with the adults (not OK) but children (OK) torture dilemma. I just don't understand that.

[Milwaukiedave]

I don't think anyone in the right mind would say it's right to touture children. The issue becomes, how much medaling can you really do?

Someone mentioned going to the police, to which someone else replied, "yeah, like they'd believe me?" Who is to say the police would actually believe you. In your eyes, you are a foreigner being critical of their culture.

The best you can do is ask the teacher in a nice way not to do that anymore. Doing anything else is probably putting you at risk for losing your job.

You can debate until their blue in the face whether or not you are just as guilty as the person who is beating the child for not speaking up. There is no right answer.

It is also a question of the degree of the punishment. I wouldn't let anyone (regardless of who they were) hurt someone in front of me if it appeared it went too far. For example, if someone jumped on a kid and started wailing on them, I wouldn't hesititate to pull them off and give them a taste of their own medicene. On the other hand, if it's simply a slap on the hand with a ruler then I don't see a reason to intervene.

[Privateer]

There has to be some form of punishment and degrees of severity of punishment. Like most westerners, I do not believe in punishing students for poor grades (although I do believe in failing them). I also ideally want classes to be well-prepared and pacy so students are engaged and too busy to misbehave, and I prefer positive reinforcement, i.e. more carrot and less stick. However, what if you have a new class and your authority is not established? What if you're simply in a bad area where kids behaviour is routinely awful? There has to be negative reinforcement sometimes.

Now I think standing out in the hall for a while works and will physically drag a student out if necessary. If a student bullies another student I will get angry, take them aside and yell at them, and that's usually enough. The punishment of last resort has until now been taking them to the front desk which may mean a phone call to their parents.

However I wouldn't rule out corporal punishment. A student might go beyond the pale and then there have to be consequences. The value of corporal punishment should be more symbolic than anything, i.e. it shouldn't really be painful or leave a bruise. If the student does something so bad that neither denying a sticker, sending outside, phoning parents, or a rap on the hands seems dire enough then it might be time for expulsion or even calling the police.

[jaderedux]

This is always a tough call. I teach Middle School. And until recently it was an all boys school.

Yes I carry a stick but mostly just to whack on the desk. I don't use corporal punishment but I have no problem having them do 25 squats with dictionaries in each hand. Push ups are a common favorite of mine. Worst is holding your chair above your head. I have clearly posted rules in my class. You screw around in my class you know there are consequences as there should be. If you are late to English class it sucks to be you. If you show up wearing your exercise clothes it sucks to be you. My classroom, my rules.

The problem with corporal punishment is it is meted out inconsistently and frequently in anger. I am not completely against corporal punishment but to strike any child in the face is a bad idea.

Violence begets violence. I don't know. Sometimes I am sure it does but if that holds true anyone who went to my Catholic School would be serial killers, and murderers. It depends on the child. I don't "hit" them per se but I have no problem bringing on some pain for repeat offenders. I don't have the time to counsel with little Min-su or Min-ji. I have classes of 40 kids each and 98% of the students stay on task or at the very least do not disrupt my class. They know disrupting my class has consequences. And no matter how much I like a student if they break the rules, they have to face the punishment.

Consistency is key.

Jade

[TheUrbanMyth]

[pegpig]

[jaderedux]

[desultude]

A friend of mine, Korean, who teaches in a boys high school told me he had to hit his students, otherwise they wouldn't memorize.

That said so much about what needs to be changed!

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[rickhorton44]

I'm working at a public high school. The thing about it is the frequency. I can't go to the teacher's room without seeing it. When I was in school we had corporal punishment, but it was very rarely used. I think I had one paddling in 4 years of high school (and that was in privately done in the principal's office). In elementary school I averaged about once or twice a week (I was a hellion back then).

Here, it is more like once or twice a day for many students. I agree with most that they use it as a crutch for poor classroom management and teaching skills.

Also, they get the stick accross the back of the leg (hamstring) on only one leg. I haven't seen them hit anyone on the hand or head. But the stick on the hamstring has to hurt a hell of a lot more than on the butt.

[jaderedux]

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[riverboy]

I bet capital punishment would be more effective than coporal. It would send a real message to any would be delinquents. You can even have a lottery like the Shirley Jackson story.