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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
My location tagline was never meant to be a sentence. And it follows a colon anyways.
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And should be used as a clause connecting conjunction here--no need for a new sentence. And anyways ain't a word. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| Should be "a high fever", as fever has not been mentioned before, meaning that the reference to fever has to use the general "a" not the specific "the". |
WRONG!()@*!()@*!)@(! HAHAHA..GOT ONE FOR ME. Whenever you are using a subordinate clause (in a complex sentence), the subject MUST come immediately after it.
Although she doesn't seem to be sick, the high fever is evident in Jane.
Corrected one: Although she doesn't seem to be sick, Jane evidently has a high fever.
You have an ambigious (sp?) pronoun reference in the dependent clause. It must be specified in the independent clause.
PHEW...  enough for me. Ok....someone else. |
Ouch, yeah, I thought that sentence felt ungainly, but I was still thinking on the micro level... |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| Should be "a high fever", as fever has not been mentioned before, meaning that the reference to fever has to use the general "a" not the specific "the". |
WRONG!()@*!()@*!)@(! HAHAHA..GOT ONE FOR ME. Whenever you are using a subordinate clause (in a complex sentence), the subject MUST come immediately after it.
Although she doesn't seem to be sick, the high fever is evident in Jane.
Corrected one: Although she doesn't seem to be sick, Jane evidently has a high fever.
You have an ambigious (sp?) pronoun reference in the dependent clause. It must be specified in the independent clause.
PHEW... enough for me. Ok....someone else. |
Why is the pronoun ambiguous?
What did you mean when you said the subject must immediately follow the subordinate clause? Does that mean that you can't even use articles or adjectives? What about this example:
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, people still believe the stock market can be a worthy investment.
That seems fine to me.
Anyway, while I'm on here, I gots one that I see a lot here on Dave's (and elsewhere) that particularly drives me crazy.
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox, barking clear and cold upon the hill.
Pretty basic error. Extra credit if you catch the allusion without googling it. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
I believe you meant to write 'should have', not 'should of.' |
Does anyone have a problem with the way I use quotations and punctuation? |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
My location tagline was never meant to be a sentence. And it follows a colon anyways.
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And should be used as a clause connecting conjunction here--no need for a new sentence. And anyways ain't a word. |
There's no need to quibble about the placement of 'and', though one point is earned for finding the colloquial 'anyways.'
As for putting final periods within single quotation marks RACETRAITOR, that is a standard grammatical rule the Brits have been getting away from of late. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
I believe you meant to write 'should have', not 'should of.' |
Does anyone have a problem with the way I use quotations and punctuation? |
You mean quotation marks? Oh haha, I'm so clever and perceptive! |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| Should be "a high fever", as fever has not been mentioned before, meaning that the reference to fever has to use the general "a" not the specific "the". |
WRONG!()@*!()@*!)@(! HAHAHA..GOT ONE FOR ME. Whenever you are using a subordinate clause (in a complex sentence), the subject MUST come immediately after it.
Although she doesn't seem to be sick, the high fever is evident in Jane.
Corrected one: Although she doesn't seem to be sick, Jane evidently has a high fever.
You have an ambigious (sp?) pronoun reference in the dependent clause. It must be specified in the independent clause.
PHEW... enough for me. Ok....someone else. |
Why is the pronoun ambiguous?
What did you mean when you said the subject must immediately follow the subordinate clause? Does that mean that you can't even use articles or adjectives? What about this example:
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, people still believe the stock market can be a worthy investment.
That seems fine to me.
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Ok: The ambiguous is referencing she in the subordinate clause. We do not know who she is, and since the sub. clause is in a complex sentence, that means that the following idependent clause must (in any writing type) explain who she is. We have no idea who she is in the complex sentence. It wouldn't be accepted if you had written:
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, they still believe the stock market can be a worthy investment.
My question would then be: who are they? Do you see what I am saying? Pronouns are meant to take the place of nouns once the noun in question is understood. In this cause, the subject noun....well......is missing.
yes, you could place an article or an adjective before it. However, the noun that the dependent clause is describing must follow immediately after those placed articles or adjectives. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox, barking clear and cold upon the hill.
Pretty basic error. Extra credit if you catch the allusion without googling it. |
Hmmm...i would say the comma placement after fox. If you want to add detail to an independent clause, why not just throw in a semi-colon. That would allievate the problem.
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox;barking clear and cold upon the hill. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| Ok: The ambiguous is referencing she in the subordinate clause. We do not know who she is, and since the sub. clause is in a complex sentence, that means that the following idependent clause must (in any writing type) explain who she is. We have no idea who she is in the complex sentence. |
I thought "she" was Jane. It's not?
| Quote: |
It wouldn't be accepted if you had written:
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, they still believe the stock market can be a worthy investment. |
Right.
| Quote: |
| My question would then be: who are they? Do you see what I am saying? Pronouns are meant to take the place of nouns once the noun in question is understood. In this cause, the subject noun....well......is missing. |
Well, of course I know the function of a pronoun.  What I'm saying is, in the sentence Although she doesn't seem to be sick, the high fever is evident in Jane, she's referent is Jane. If you mean that "she" possibly refers to "the fever", that's illogical and impossible.
| Quote: |
| yes, you could place an article or an adjective before it. However, the noun that the dependent clause is describing must follow immediately after those placed articles or adjectives. |
What did you think about my stock market example? The referent of "it" is in the independent clause, but it isn't immediately after the adjectives and other assorted verbiage (which should be pronounced "var-BAZHE"). |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox, barking clear and cold upon the hill.
Pretty basic error. Extra credit if you catch the allusion without googling it. |
Hmmm...i would say the comma placement after fox. If you want to add detail to an independent clause, why not just throw in a semi-colon. That would allievate the problem.
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox;barking clear and cold upon the hill. |
Why not throw in a semi-colon? Because that's not how you use semi-colons. Typically, a semi-colon takes the place of a conjunction between independent clauses, or is used to elucidate lists.
Try again!  |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:44 am Post subject: |
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When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox, barking clear and cold upon the hill.
I think I know what you looking for, and if I don't, then we can start another line of enquiry on this sentence. Since you couldn't possibly ever be a fox in reality as most people understand it, "I wished I were a fox" is called for. That is, until the subjunctive in English goes away completely, which at its current rate of lingering death should be some time next week.
cubanlord, I think we need to have a complete sentence on the other side of that semicolon. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Ok: The ambiguous is referencing she in the subordinate clause. We do not know who she is, and since the sub. clause is in a complex sentence, that means that the following idependent clause must (in any writing type) explain who she is. We have no idea who she is in the complex sentence. |
I thought "she" was Jane. It's not?
| Quote: |
It wouldn't be accepted if you had written:
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, they still believe the stock market can be a worthy investment. |
Right.
| Quote: |
| My question would then be: who are they? Do you see what I am saying? Pronouns are meant to take the place of nouns once the noun in question is understood. In this cause, the subject noun....well......is missing. |
Well, of course I know the function of a pronoun. What I'm saying is, in the sentence Although she doesn't seem to be sick, the high fever is evident in Jane, she's referent is Jane. If you mean that "she" possibly refers to "the fever", that's illogical and impossible.
| Quote: |
| yes, you could place an article or an adjective before it. However, the noun that the dependent clause is describing must follow immediately after those placed articles or adjectives. |
What did you think about my stock market example? The referent of "it" is in the independent clause, but it isn't immediately after the adjectives and other assorted verbiage (which should be pronounced "var-BAZHE"). |
Ah. That is still wrong because whatever the dependent clause is refering to must be justified immediately after the comma.
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, people still believe the stock market can be a worthy investment.
So what you are saying is that people fluctuate unpredictably at times? That is incorrect. To correct this, you would write it this way:
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, the stock market is still believed by people as a worthy investment |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox, barking clear and cold upon the hill.
I think I know what you looking for, and if I don't, then we can start another line of enquiry on this sentence. Since you couldn't possibly ever be a fox in reality as most people understand it, "I wished I were a fox" is called for. That is, until the subjunctive in English goes away completely, which at its current rate of lingering death should be some time next week.
cubanlord, I think we need to have a complete sentence on the other side of that semicolon. |
Ding ding ding!
I've read from several grammarians that the subjunctive is rarely used, but I sure do see it a lot online, and people usually flub it up, too. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox, barking clear and cold upon the hill.
Pretty basic error. Extra credit if you catch the allusion without googling it. |
Hmmm...i would say the comma placement after fox. If you want to add detail to an independent clause, why not just throw in a semi-colon. That would allievate the problem.
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox;barking clear and cold upon the hill. |
Why not throw in a semi-colon? Because that's not how you use semi-colons. Typically, a semi-colon takes the place of a conjunction between independent clauses, or is used to elucidate lists.
Try again! |
http://xnet.rrc.mb.ca/leshanson/Writing_Resources.htm
you are correct. However so am I. I was using a semi-colon to take the place of the following conjunction in the sentence:
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox while barking clear and cold upon the hill. |
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Eunoia
Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Location: In a seedy karakoe bar by the banks of the mighty Bosphorus
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, the stock market is still believed by people as a worthy investment |
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, the stock market is still believed by people to be a worthy investment.
Sorry, I got nothing to add to this game. |
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