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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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 Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| Eunoia wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, the stock market is still believed by people as a worthy investment |
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, the stock market is still believed by people to be a worthy investment.
Sorry, I got nothing to add to this game. |
ah....darn...forgot to change that part...thanks. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| flotsam wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
My location tagline was never meant to be a sentence. And it follows a colon anyways.
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And should be used as a clause connecting conjunction here--no need for a new sentence. And anyways ain't a word. |
There's no need to quibble about the placement of 'and', though one point is earned for finding the colloquial 'anyways.'
As for putting final periods within single quotation marks RACETRAITOR, that is a standard grammatical rule the Brits have been getting away from of late. |
But the sneaky bastard is mixing styles.
And don't tell me not to harrass other people on pointless grammar issues!
The nerve. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
Ah. That is still wrong because whatever the dependent clause is refering to must be justified immediately after the comma.
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, people still believe the stock market can be a worthy investment.
So what you are saying is that people fluctuate unpredictably at times? That is incorrect. To correct this, you would write it this way:
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, the stock market is still believed by people as a worthy investment |
So what you're saying is, "it" can be used to refer to people? "She" can be used to refer to a fever? I really don't think so. Let's consult with M-W.com:
She
1 : that female one who is neither speaker nor the one addressed <she is my wife>
2 -- used to refer to one regarded as feminine (as by personification) <she was a fine ship>
It
1 : that one -- used as subject or direct object or indirect object of a verb or object of a preposition usually in reference to a lifeless thing <took a quick look at the house and noticed it was very old>, a plant <there is a rosebush near the fence and it is now blooming>, a person or animal whose sex is unknown or disregarded <don't know who it is>, a group of individuals or things, or an abstract entity <beauty is everywhere and it is a source of joy>
English doesn't have gender modifiers per se, like French or Spanish do, but nouns definitely do carry a gender. Bob is always he. A rose is always it. The lady is always she. Your sentence from the OP was wrong only in the way Satori highlighted regarding article usage.
I think the point you're missing with regard to subordinate clauses that contain pronouns, is that the immediately-following independent clause should name the pronoun. It doesn't mean that the next noun names the pronoun. That's quite illogical.
When you read my sentence about the stock market, you really couldn't tell that "it" referred to the stock market?
Q. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Man do I have one for you guys: 
What is the difference between the two sentences below:
I like hamburgers, hot dogs, and french fries.
vs.
I like hamburgers, hot dogs and french fries.
C'mon. This is an easy one ladies. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox, barking clear and cold upon the hill.
Pretty basic error. Extra credit if you catch the allusion without googling it. |
Hmmm...i would say the comma placement after fox. If you want to add detail to an independent clause, why not just throw in a semi-colon. That would allievate the problem.
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox;barking clear and cold upon the hill. |
Why not throw in a semi-colon? Because that's not how you use semi-colons. Typically, a semi-colon takes the place of a conjunction between independent clauses, or is used to elucidate lists.
Try again!  |
http://xnet.rrc.mb.ca/leshanson/Writing_Resources.htm
you are correct. However so am I.  I was using a semi-colon to take the place of the following conjunction in the sentence:
When I was young and easy under the apple boughs, I wished I was a fox while barking clear and cold upon the hill. |
No way, bro, that drastically changes the meaning of the sentence. If you add "while", it means I actually was on the hill barking. There's nothing wrong with my comma usage in that sentence, whereas a semi-colon would be wrong. Check that link you provided.
About commas, I'll point out that they're really hard to err with. The whole point of the comma is to clarify something, and as long as it aids in understanding the sentence, it's doing its job. A lot of people get all stressed out about them, but really, if you think there needs to be a comma, then there probably does. Having said that, not putting a comma where one should be does happen a lot.
Q.
Last edited by Qinella on Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: |
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I guess I'm out of luck on the extra point, though. Ah well. Here's one:
Although he was not outgoing by nature, he had a very unique way of getting people to open up to him. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Dudes, I am a massive nerd, but you gentlemen are out of control. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
Ah. That is still wrong because whatever the dependent clause is refering to must be justified immediately after the comma.
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, people still believe the stock market can be a worthy investment.
So what you are saying is that people fluctuate unpredictably at times? That is incorrect. To correct this, you would write it this way:
Although it fluctuates unpredictably at times, the stock market is still believed by people as a worthy investment |
So what you're saying is, "it" can be used to refer to people? "She" can be used to refer to a fever? I really don't think so. Let's consult with M-W.com:
She
1 : that female one who is neither speaker nor the one addressed <she is my wife>
2 -- used to refer to one regarded as feminine (as by personification) <she was a fine ship>
It
1 : that one -- used as subject or direct object or indirect object of a verb or object of a preposition usually in reference to a lifeless thing <took a quick look at the house and noticed it was very old>, a plant <there is a rosebush near the fence and it is now blooming>, a person or animal whose sex is unknown or disregarded <don't know who it is>, a group of individuals or things, or an abstract entity <beauty is everywhere and it is a source of joy>
English doesn't have gender modifiers per se, like French or Spanish do, but nouns definitely do carry a gender. Bob is always he. A rose is always it. The lady is always she. Your sentence from the OP was wrong only in the way Satori highlighted regarding article usage.
I think the point you're missing with regard to subordinate clauses that contain pronouns, is that the immediately-following independent clause should name the pronoun. It doesn't mean that the next noun names the pronoun. That's quite illogical.
When you read my sentence about the stock market, you really couldn't tell that "it" referred to the stock market?
Q. |
Actually, it looked like it referred to people. Here you go baby...I gots some stuff for ya:
http://www.arts.uottawa.ca/writcent/hypergrammar/sntstrct.html
when you are making a reference about a person in the dependent clause, and the reference is a subject pronoun, the independent clause that follows the dependent clause MUST be justified. In this case, you are providing a subject pronoun, thus it must be brought to people's attention what it really means (hence the ambiguous reference). People wouldn't know if it is stock market or people. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
Man do I have one for you guys:
What is the difference between the two sentences below:
I like hamburgers, hot dogs, and french fries.
vs.
I like hamburgers, hot dogs and french fries.
C'mon. This is an easy one ladies. |
Comma usage in the second one is generally preferred. However, the first one is also correct. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
Man do I have one for you guys:
What is the difference between the two sentences below:
I like hamburgers, hot dogs, and french fries.
vs.
I like hamburgers, hot dogs and french fries.
C'mon. This is an easy one ladies. |
Comma usage in the second one is generally preferred. However, the first one is also correct. |
correct. the latter preferred around British English circles. The former in The US. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
Actually, it looked like it referred to people. Here you go baby...I gots some stuff for ya:
http://www.arts.uottawa.ca/writcent/hypergrammar/sntstrct.html
when you are making a reference about a person in the dependent clause, and the reference is a subject pronoun, the independent clause that follows the dependent clause MUST be justified. In this case, you are providing a subject pronoun, thus it must be brought to people's attention what it really means (hence the ambiguous reference). People wouldn't know if it is stock market or people. |
So what you're saying is, the following is an okay sentence?
I don't like those people, because it's white and I'm a racist.
Because that's what you're saying.
As I said, you can't just assume that the first noun you come across is the referent of the pronoun. That's crazy. It's like saying la gato esta negro. You see what I mean? You can't say LA gato.
You forced me to get all nerdy and make Flotsam mock me, so now you owe me a hamburger and a kiss from your wife. Hamburger optional.
Q.
Last edited by Qinella on Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Throw in a kiss for me and I will take back the insult.
**EDIT**
Before anyone gets too clever--we know who I meant the kiss to be from.
Last edited by flotsam on Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
Actually, it looked like it referred to people. Here you go baby...I gots some stuff for ya:
http://www.arts.uottawa.ca/writcent/hypergrammar/sntstrct.html
when you are making a reference about a person in the dependent clause, and the reference is a subject pronoun, the independent clause that follows the dependent clause MUST be justified. In this case, you are providing a subject pronoun, thus it must be brought to people's attention what it really means (hence the ambiguous reference). People wouldn't know if it is stock market or people. |
So what you're saying is, the following is an okay sentence?
I don't like those people, because they're white and I'm a racist.
Because that's what you're saying.
As I said, you can't just assume that the first noun you come across is the referent of the pronoun. That's crazy. It's like saying la gato esta negro. You see what I mean? You can't say LA gato.
You forced me to get all nerdy and make Flotsam mock me, so now you owe me a hamburger and a kiss from your wife. Hamburger optional.
Q. |
 actually your sentence is correct. It's a compound-complex sentence. (I don't like those people, because they're white and I'm a racist.) |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
I guess I'm out of luck on the extra point, though. Ah well. Here's one:
Although he was not outgoing by nature, he had a very unique way of getting people to open up to him. |
Extra point: the allusion was to a Dylan Thomas poem that I love reading. You can love it, too, after clicking here.
As for your sentence, um... is it a trick question? I don't see any errors.
Q. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
Throw in a kiss for me and I will take back the insult.
**EDIT**
Before anyone gets too clever--we know who I meant the kiss to be from. |
Yeah yeah, we know dude, don't worry-no homophobes here. |
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