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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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 Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: New 'Iraq massacre' tape emerges |
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Well, well, well, isolated incident my a**. It would seem the war is now lost.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5039420.stm
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The BBC has uncovered new video evidence that US forces may have been responsible for the deliberate killing of 11 innocent Iraqi civilians.
The video appears to challenge the US military's account of events that took place in the town of Ishaqi in March.
The US said at the time four people died during a military operation, but Iraqi police claimed that US troops had deliberately shot the 11 people.
A spokesman for US forces in Iraq told the BBC an inquiry was under way.
The new evidence comes in the wake of the alleged massacre in Haditha, where US marines are suspected of massacring up to 24 Iraqi civilians in November 2005.
'Massacre'
The video pictures obtained by the BBC appear to contradict the US account of the events in Ishaqi, about 100km (60 miles) north of Baghdad, on 15 March 2006.
The US authorities said they were involved in a firefight after a tip-off that an al-Qaeda supporter was visiting the house.
According to the Americans, the building collapsed under heavy fire killing four people - a suspect, two women and a child.
But a report filed by Iraqi police accused US troops of rounding up and deliberately shooting 11 people in the house, including five children and four women, before blowing up the building.
The video tape obtained by the BBC shows a number of dead adults and children at the site with what our world affairs editor John Simpson says were clearly gunshot wounds.
The pictures came from a hardline Sunni group opposed to coalition forces.
It has been cross-checked with other images taken at the time of events and is believed to be genuine, the BBC's Ian Pannell in Baghdad says. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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This is spooky, begining to be so reminiscent of Vietnam..........the whole damn scenario. Talk of a "new" war strategy, a puppet government, military $$$$ addiction (thus, no withdrawl), underestimation of the enemy and the notion of "occupying force, the gradual exposure by a conservative media to more and more "rotten", young, poor Americans dying for the well off, fighting to "free' the world , suicide bombers, escalating dirty tactics by the military, no notion of winning the war by economic assistance instead of guns, the notion that America NEVER loses and sticks to the end, a deteriorating , undisciplined, scared, rogueness to the military on the ground, no world support, U.S. weaponry used by the enemy to fight...............
The tide is turning very much.........even George Bush became contrite last month............unfortunately only because his advisors probably ordered him, for political expediency............. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Puppet government?
prove it by the why is Iraqs new government far more democratic and representative than most mideast regimes?
Yes or No?
and a hell of a lot more democratic and representative than the regime of Saddam Hussein. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo, it doesn't matter. These acts of terror by the US is compounding hatred in the whole of the mideast. Yes there is a newly elected government but that doesn't matter when the whole country thinks they are backed by murderers. What will happen now is the rate of recruitment by the mujahideen (sp) will increase and so will funding and weapons trading. This elected government will soon enough be overthrown and replaced with a new one. The US will leave because it is only going to get nastier. People can pretend that this new democracy is a great and shining example lighting the way for the wayward arab populaces but its not. This is going the way of Vietnam, except where the Vietnamese only got support from the Chinese and Soviets, the entire muslim world from Morocco to Indonesia is going to back various factions and this could really get out of hand. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Man, Bush has made a real mess out of that place. Going in to overthrow a dictator for his brutral slayings of innocents was all fine and dandy except now it is the americans murdering the innocent. This is quickly getting out of control. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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A "puppet" regime is a government which cannot exist without the support of a larger, more armed, "friend". It is installed (however the process) based on this "friendship". Just like a puppet, it can't do anything without the neural twitchings of the larger friend......
It doesn't refer to "elected or not". Many puppet regimes, infact most, instantly turn to elections to justify their existence and gain quasi "authority" and popular support. Usually, the popular support is given because the election is rigged -- there is no opposition, true opposition. The puppet govt, has all the cash and advertising space and vested interest in a positive outcome......
By the way, there were elections in S.Vietnam (and not national South/North elections as originally wished because of course Ho Chi Min woulda won) and Diem won by a landslide.......S. Vietnam was still a puppet regime (by the way, the election was not seen as truly democratic though the U.S. paraded it as such...).
DD |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13090111/
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Attorney: 7 Marines, sailor face murder charges
8 to be charged in death of Iraqi civilian in April, defense lawyer says
NBC NEWS EXCLUSIVE
NBC News and news services
Updated: 8:43 p.m. ET June 1, 2006
SAN DIEGO - Military prosecutors plan to file murder, kidnapping and conspiracy charges against seven Marines and a Navy corpsman in the shooting death of an Iraqi man in April, a defense lawyer said Thursday.
The eight men are being held in the brig at Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base north of San Diego, said Jeremiah Sullivan III, who represents one of the men.
The men served in Iraq with the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, and are members of the battalion�s Kilo Company. The highest-ranking among them is a staff sergeant.
Sullivan said he learned from Marine Corps attorneys that the charges have been drafted and official charging documents could be given to the men as early as Friday.
Separately, another group of five Marines in Kilo Company, including a lieutenant who commanded the platoon, are under investigation for injuring a suspect in their custody, according to a defense attorney who has been contacted by the family of one of the Marines. He spoke Thursday only on condition of anonymity because he has not taken on the case.
The Iraqi man was killed west of Baghdad on April 26. His death was unrelated to the shootings of as many as two dozen civilians in the western Iraqi city of Haditha. The Pentagon is investigating troops from the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment in that case.
The Marine Corps and Pentagon spokesmen have refused to comment on any aspect of the Iraqi�s death since an investigation was announced May 24.
However, a Pentagon official said Thursday that charges are expected to be brought �very soon.� The official, who spoke only on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to discuss charges before they are filed, could not confirm the specific counts.
Sullivan said the eight men are being held in solitary confinement.
Haditha incident looms large
�There�s concern about the publicity of Haditha having a detrimental impact on the case,� he said. �My concern is that the whole politics of this. There�s an assumption that these guys are guilty before there�s been an opportunity for a thorough, impartial investigation.�
Under military law, after charges are served defendants have the right to an Article 32 hearing, the military equivalent of a civilian grand jury investigation.
An investigating officer presides over the hearing and makes a recommendation to the Marine general who directed the investigation. The general has the final say whether to order a court-martial and what charges, if any, the defendants will face.
NBC News broke the story on May 25, when military officials told NBC's Jim Miklaszewski that seven Marines were believed to have dragged an innocent Iraqi man from his home in April, killed him in cold blood and then tried to conceal the crime.
The alleged incident occurred April 26 in the town of Hamandiyah. The Marines are accused of dragging the innocent man from his home, shooting him to death, then planting an AK-47 rifle and a shovel next to his body, apparently to make it appear the man had been burying an IED, one of the roadside bombs that have been so deadly to U.S. forces in Iraq.
Further, military officials told NBC that at least one of the Marines had reportedly confessed in the killing. The officials said they found the allegations especially disturbing because the case appeared to have been a premeditated killing and not carried out in the heat of combat. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A "puppet" regime is a government which cannot exist without the support of a larger, more armed, "friend". It is installed (however the process) based on this "friendship". Just like a puppet, it can't do anything without the neural twitchings of the larger friend...... |
It wasn't installed it was elected
| Quote: |
| It doesn't refer to "elected or not". Many puppet regimes, infact most, instantly turn to elections to justify their existence and gain quasi "authority" and popular support. Usually, the popular support is given because the election is rigged -- there is no opposition, true opposition. The puppet govt, has all the cash and advertising space and vested interest in a positive outcome...... |
but the election was not rigged, and the one the US would have liked to win didn't.
Your description of elections sounds like the Sandanistas,
| Quote: |
| By the way, there were elections in S.Vietnam (and not national South/North elections as originally wished because of course Ho Chi Min woulda won) and Diem won by a landslide.......S. Vietnam was still a puppet regime (by the way, the election was not seen as truly democratic though the U.S. paraded it as such...). |
your take
I wonder if Kim Il Sung would have won elections in Korea in 1950? |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| A "puppet" regime is a government which cannot exist without the support of a larger, more armed, "friend". It is installed (however the process) based on this "friendship". Just like a puppet, it can't do anything without the neural twitchings of the larger friend...... |
It wasn't installed it was elected
| Quote: |
| It doesn't refer to "elected or not". Many puppet regimes, infact most, instantly turn to elections to justify their existence and gain quasi "authority" and popular support. Usually, the popular support is given because the election is rigged -- there is no opposition, true opposition. The puppet govt, has all the cash and advertising space and vested interest in a positive outcome...... |
but the election was not rigged, and the one the US would have liked to win didn't.
Your description of elections sounds like the Sandanistas,
| Quote: |
| By the way, there were elections in S.Vietnam (and not national South/North elections as originally wished because of course Ho Chi Min woulda won) and Diem won by a landslide.......S. Vietnam was still a puppet regime (by the way, the election was not seen as truly democratic though the U.S. paraded it as such...). |
your take
I wonder if Kim Il Sung would have won elections in Korea in 1950? |
So, by inference, you are now calling ddeubel a communist or something. Your arguments over this war have become more and more desperate over the years. Yes years- the war is almost as long now as WWII, I wonder when it will catch up with Viet Nam. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Usually, the popular support is given because the election is rigged -- there is no opposition, true opposition. The puppet govt, has all the cash and advertising space and vested interest in a positive outcome... |
Such is what the Sandanistas ' did. Though there was no shortage of left wingers apologizing for them.
By the way how am I calling him a communist? (wouldn't rule it out though) |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:07 am Post subject: ... |
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Octavius,
Perhaps you could retitle this thread so that it's clear that this is not about Haditha.
Maybe tag on "in Ishaqi". |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Lets see...evidence points to the house being shot at from a distance....bodies were shot from a distance....goes against what the Iraqis are saying....apparantly Americans didnt enter the house!
I seem to recall Saddam keeping the bodies of children on ice and then parading them through town as a demonstration against the evil Americans.....anytime Iraqis produce bodies to suit themselves I take it with a grain of salt! |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Let's not forget either: there's long been scores of people being "quietly" murdered in Iraq daily.
Mostly shot in the head execution style, usually after being gleefully tortured.
Hmmmmmmmm ...
Accusations against U.S. enrage Iraqis
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A third set of allegations that U.S. troops have deliberately killed civilians is fueling a furor in Iraq and drawing strong condemnations from government and human rights officials.
"It looks like the killing of Iraqi civilians is becoming a daily phenomenon," the chairman of the Iraqi Human Rights Association, Muayed al-Anbaki, said Friday after video ran on television of children and adults slain in a raid in March on the Iraqi village of Ishaqi north of Baghdad.
Al-Anbaki's comments came a day after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki upbraided the U.S. military over allegations that Marines killed two dozen unarmed civilians in the western city of Haditha, calling it "a horrible crime." They were his strongest public comments on the subject since his government was sworn in last month.
U.S. commanders have ordered new ethics training for all troops in Iraq. But the flow of revelations and investigations threatens to undermine Iraq's new government and public support in America for President Bush's management of the war.
Iraq's government also began its own investigation of the deaths in Haditha.
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Accusations against U.S. enrage Iraqis
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer |
Excellent source, IGTG.
Now, let's use some of our patented Tavistock/British Secret Service/Trilateral mind control techniques to accentuate the positive.
Repeat after me(preferably with a masonic subliminal Grateful Dead album playing in the background)...
Associated Press, good source.
David Icke, bad source.
Associated press, good source.
David Icke.... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Investigators have determined U.S. soldiers followed proper procedure and will not face charges for the deaths of at least four Iraqis during a raid near the town of Ishaqi on March 15, Pentagon sources said Friday.
The death toll and the manner of the civilian deaths remains disputed. Iraqi officials say 11 people, including five children, were killed in the U.S.-led raid on a suspected al Qaeda in Iraq site about 60 miles north of Baghdad.
Four women were listed among the dead and one of the children was 6 months old, the Iraqi officials said.
Army Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said Friday that three civilians were killed along with an insurgent, whom he said was a bomb maker and recruiter. A man suspected of being a Kuwaiti-born al Qaeda cell leader was taken into coalition custody and questioned.
Other U.S. officials said Army soldiers conducting the raid near Balad came under fire and called in an airstrike that destroyed a building and killed the civilians.
Caldwell said investigators reported that up to "nine collateral deaths" may have occurred but that "a precise number could not be determined due to the collapsed walls and heavy debris."
Investigators from the Army Criminal Investigation Command concluded that the troops used appropriate force on a legitimate military target after coming under fire, the Pentagon sources said.
A Balad police official said at the time of the raid that witnesses claimed U.S. troops had kept an entire family in a room before spraying them with bullets.
Caldwell said that account was "absolutely false."
"The ground forces commander, while capturing and killing terrorists, operated in accordance with the rules of engagement," Caldwell said.
The police official further said U.S. troops destroyed the building and killed livestock belonging to people in the house. In the house police found bullet casings of the type used by U.S. soldiers, the official said.
Haditha bodies
Friday's announcement clears U.S. troops in one of four incidents in which they are alleged to have intentionally killed innocent Iraqis, including women and children.
Other investigations are under way into an alleged massacre in Haditha and the death of an Iraqi civilian near Hamandiya, west of Baghdad, on April 26.
Also, the military is looking into reports that soldiers killed two women, one of whom was pregnant, in Samarra on Tuesday. Witnesses said the women were killed when their vehicle drove through a checkpoint.
Investigators in Haditha are hoping to exhume victims' bodies to look for forensic evidence that may explain how 24 Iraqi civilians were fatally shot on November 19, according to a senior U.S. military official with knowledge of the probe.
The families of the Haditha victims are refusing the exhumation request, contributing to a delay in the Naval Criminal Investigative Service's investigation into the deaths, the military said Friday.
Sources said that military investigators strongly suspect that a small number of Marines snapped and went on a rampage after one of their own was killed by a roadside bomb in Haditha, a city on the Euphrates River northwest of Baghdad.
Source: Murder charges likely
Military prosecutors "likely" will file murder charges against seven Marines accused in the April 26 shooting death of an Iraqi civilian in Hamandiya, a source familiar with the investigation said Thursday.
"Somewhere around seven Marines are likely to face charges," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity because charges have not yet been filed. "Murder charges are likely," the source added but they may not come on Friday.
The Associated Press quoted a defense lawyer, Jeremiah Sullivan III, as saying that a Navy Corpsman is also expected to face charges, which include kidnapping and conspiracy.
The Iraqi civilian reportedly was dragged from his home and shot. Both the Los Angeles Times and NBC News said troops may have planted an AK-47 and shovel near the body to make it appear the man was an insurgent burying a roadside bomb.
Neither media outlet suggested a possible motive for the killing.
The eight men are being held in the brig at Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base in California, the AP quoted Sullivan as saying.
Training ordered
Amid the series of allegations involving troops, the U.S. military has ordered all coalition personnel to undergo refresher courses in ethics and values.
A military spokesman defended the two-to-four hour presentation on Friday, saying, "It's not a PowerPoint presentation per se. It's there as a guide. It's there as a tool.
"This is serious business, and we're going to focus on doing the right thing."
The spokesman, Brig. Gen. Donald Campbell, deputy commanding general of Multinational Corps-Iraq, said the training includes an introduction on "why this is a tremendous profession, and what we're doing, and then it leads through what we view (as) values."
Emphasizing repeatedly that 99.9 percent of U.S. troops in Iraq behave properly and ethically, he described factors that could lead to rare exceptions: "stress, fear, isolation, and in some cases they're just upset. They see their buddies getting blown up on occasion, and they could snap." |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/02/iraqi.probes/index.html |
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