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Why Does Al Qaeda Fight?
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saharzie



Joined: 22 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It makes one wonder that the mideast street never got angry when Saddam gassed the Kurds or when Bin Laden killed Muslims or when Khomeni killed Muslims or about the Algerian civil war which killed tens or hundreds of thousands or when Assad destroys a city. Can you tell us about that.


Why would the Mideast "street" get angry? Why would the average Emirati or Morroccan care about the Kurds? Or indeed any other nation of people?

Quote:
really? If mideast states just killed those who support Al Qaida then there would be no Al Qaeda.


Yes, lets kill all of them. Then there would be no Al Qaida.
Mohammed: "Wheres Ahmed?"
He's dead. Killed for supporting Al Qaida.
Mohammed: Really. Well I certainly will not try and avenge his death.
Lets make sure we dont support any groups the US finds offensive.
Mohammed: Amen to that.

Quote:
Mideast states and elites don't have a right to teach hate , plan terror, support Al Qaida and incite violence with out being hit back for doing so.


If you use that logic, than the US does not have the right to illegally attack countries, use extra-legal measures to destablise countries or illegally transport prisoners without being hit back for doing so.

Quote:
No bid contracts for Haliburton are in Part cause they were experienced at rebuilding sure is there corruption there probably but not at the scale you claim.


monumental ignorance on your part. Could not simply have ignored the original argument instead of contributing this gleaming turd to the discussion?

Quote:
The US doesn't have to accept their war.


Nope, they don't. And judging by the amount of dead Americans washing up in Iraq every week, a lot of people don't accept the American's war either.[/code]
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why would the Mideast "street" get angry? Why would the average Emirati or Morroccan care about the Kurds? Or indeed any other nation of people?


I think the point he was making is that Muslims only get up in arms when infidels kill Muslims. When Muslims massacre other Muslims they tend not to care, especially if they are non-Arabs, like the Kurds.
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Muslims only get up in arms when infidels kill Muslims. When Muslims massacre other Muslims they tend not to care

That doesn't sound right to me. I mean, in terms of stereotypes, or what we see on the news, that could be true.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mideast states and elites don't have a right to teach hate , plan terror, support Al Qaida and incite violence with out being hit back for doing so.


When will you be invading Saudi then?
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That doesn't sound right to me.


Really, remind me of those mass Muslim rallies against the genocide of Black Muslims in Darfur.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:


If the US would adopt a principled foreign policy, reject interventionism and become a beacon of liberty in the world once again, we could earn the respect of future generations and cut off the supply of future terrorists. Those who have already been radicalized will never stop fighting. They must be caught or killed, but without abandoning moral principles. This is a difficult task. The intellectual lightweights running and supporting the current US administration are morally bankrupt and clueless as to how to proceed.


true or not, he US is percieved worldwide as having a corrupt and prejudiced foreign policy.

They're only looking after their own interests: they're exploiting countries for their oil: they only intervene in countries with useful resources on offer: they are arrogant, forcing western culture on the world; etc etc etc.
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Octavius Hite



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Verne, the genocide in Darfur is against black africans, the janjiweed and the adminstration in Sudan are Arabs.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Big Verne, the genocide in Darfur is against black africans, the janjiweed and the adminstration in Sudan are Arabs.


The genocide in Darfur is against Black Muslims, and it is committed by Arab Muslims. Why no outcry from the 'Muslim/Arab Street'? Anything to do with Arab racism against Blacks who are not really considered proper Muslims, like Arabs?
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why would the Mideast "street" get angry? Why would the average Emirati or Morroccan care about the Kurds? Or indeed any other nation of people?


what is their relgion? the why all of sudden are they upset that the US took down Saddam? When they could care less about about more violent stuff that was far less justified than what the US did?

Quote:
really? If mideast states just killed those who support Al Qaida then there would be no Al Qaeda.


Quote:
Yes, lets kill all of them. Then there would be no Al Qaida.
Mohammed: "Wheres Ahmed?"
He's dead. Killed for supporting Al Qaida.
Mohammed: Really. Well I certainly will not try and avenge his death.
Lets make sure we dont support any groups the US finds offensive.
Mohammed: Amen to that.


Uh no mideast states are police states almost like North Korea. They have excellent security services. They what the elites do. They know who funds Al Qaida. Most of the Clerics are paid by the government.

Yes calling for holy war, funding Al Qaida , teaching hate and funding Al Qaida is offensive and if a nation does it or allows it to happen they they have to stop and if they don't stop then they have to be forced to stop.


Quote:
If you use that logic, than the US does not have the right to illegally attack countries


Not illegal Saddam never gave up his war and his revolutionary agenda futhermore Saddam's regime by its behavior had no right to exist.


Futhermore Mideast regimes and elites teach hate and incite violence plan terror and fund Al Qaeda .


The US doesn't have to accept that .


,
Quote:
use extra-legal measures to destablise countries


Like Saddams Iraq ?

Quote:
or illegally transport prisoners without being hit back for doing so.


Really Al Qaeda are not getting away. Going after Al Qaida is not an act of war.

Al Qaida is illegitimate , Khomeni is illegitimate and Saddam and his way is illegitmate. there is no moral equivlence.and if they don't want to give up their war then they US ought to hit them with everything the US has got until they do.




Quote:
monumental ignorance on your part. Could not simply have ignored the original argument instead of contributing this gleaming turd to the discussion?


I was responding. If you know otherwise then well show it.

Quote:
The US doesn't have to accept their war.


Nope, they don't. And judging by the amount of dead Americans washing up in Iraq every week, a lot of people don't accept the American's war either.[/code][/quote]

the US was attacked on 9-11 cause regimes and elties teach hate and fund Al Qaida.

Saddam never gave up his war and that is why he is gone.



Saddam wanted to conquer the mideast - maybe more

Khomeni wanted to conquer the mideast- maybe more his followers wanted a Caliphate too.

Bin Laden and the hate group known as Al Qaeda want to conquer the mideast but they also want much more than the mideast.They want Spain back , and they want Timor back and they want South Asia and Africa.

The US war is to force Al Qaida and the Bathists and the Khomenists to give up their war. That is the difference and that is what the left wingers don't understand.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Nope it for the new Caliphate


Don't be naive. This won't bring them money and power?
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Nope it for the new Caliphate


Don't be naive. This won't bring them money and power?


Yes and the ability to kill off followers of other religions
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so."

"Some guys here kinda look up to you, like you was a hero or somethin'" Radar to Hawkie on MASH (as I remember it.)

"The bigger they are, the harder they fall."


The world needs heroes. People in the world need to have heroes, leaders and even a country they can look up to. Some have sports heroes, some have religion, many have more than one hero. Some have a special teacher, their father ...

But what happens when a hero lets us down. Our hopes and dreams are crushed. We become disillusioned, alienated. This experience can leave a person lost, rudderless, looking for answers ...

This puts a lot of pressure on these moral leaders in our world. We do not suffer greatly when the average man falls from grace, for we did not hold him up so high. But when our heroes, our moral leaders, fall, we are crushed.

This doesn't seem fair to those who are so worshipped. Hawkie was quite upset at Radar. He didn't want the responsibility of being Radar's hero. He didn't want to have to always maintain that higher standard.


So it is for the United States of America. America. It was a dream to Americans and the masses of the world. It stood for opportunity and wealth, yes, but more importantly, it stood for PRINCIPLES.

America, through it's history and mythology, from the protest, revolt and Declaration of Independence through World War II, it seemed to stand for something.

Moral principles. The PRINCIPLES OF LIBERTY. Yes, America made mistakes, but they were small, they were tolerable.

Not so anymore.

Since the early part of the 20th Century, socialistic ideas began to take hold in America: the Federal Income Tax, the Federal Reserve, the Great Depression, the welfare state, growing unemployment (the product of taxes, regulation and the Social Security system), pollution and environmental degredation (the result of NOT recognizing the property rights of individuals in the environment) the energy crises itself - these are all the legacy of socialism. Worst of all of the socialistic ideas: interventionism and war.

Each of the many failures of the US Government to follow the known principles of liberty, has led to the alienation and disillusionment of millions of people at home and abroad. These people, often rudderless and confused, saddened and disappointed, turn to other people, places, ideologies, religions for a new moral compass.


This is what happened to Timothy McVeigh and to Osama bin Laden. Each believed in the US and later became disillusioned. McVeigh decided he would be the new hero and lead the second American revolution. His attempted "shot heard round the world" on April 19th, failed to bring an uprising and because he was really a dufus, he was quickly caught. Bin Laden also became his own revolutionary leader. He uses islam and the califate as tools, but they are not his motivation. Each of these men was crushed to discover that the US had feet of clay. Each was driven to destroy the old hero and create a new one.


The world needs a nation that will be its moral compass. A moral leader. This should be THE MOST important foreign and domestic policy imperative for the US government. It should guide and control all lawmaking and policy making decisions. It is the reason that decades of foreign adventurism has so harmed the citizens and the true interests of America. It is why a war in Afghanistan against the Taliban and Al Qaeda was just, and a war in Iraq was wrong.


No individual, group or government has the right to INITATE force against any other individual, group or government.


America must become a moral leader once again. America must follow the principles of liberty. America must abolish its welfare/warfare state.

This will not be an easy task. To regain the respect of the world, to have 'free trade with all and entangling alliances with none,' to fight the enemies that the US has already created for itself and maintain moral leadership at the same time will require sacrifice and suffering. But the alternative is the fall of America.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Hollywoodaction wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Nope it for the new Caliphate


Don't be naive. This won't bring them money and power?


Yes and the ability to kill off followers of other religions


Eliminating the competition, trying to create a monopoly, cornering the market. Call it what you will, it all comes down to money.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
"Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so."

"Some guys here kinda look up to you, like you was a hero or somethin'" Radar to Hawkie on MASH (as I remember it.)

"The bigger they are, the harder they fall."


The world needs heroes. People in the world need to have heroes, leaders and even a country they can look up to. Some have sports heroes, some have religion, many have more than one hero. Some have a special teacher, their father ...

But what happens when a hero lets us down. Our hopes and dreams are crushed. We become disillusioned, alienated. This experience can leave a person lost, rudderless, looking for answers ...

This puts a lot of pressure on these moral leaders in our world. We do not suffer greatly when the average man falls from grace, for we did not hold him up so high. But when our heroes, our moral leaders, fall, we are crushed.

This doesn't seem fair to those who are so worshipped. Hawkie was quite upset at Radar. He didn't want the responsibility of being Radar's hero. He didn't want to have to always maintain that higher standard.


So it is for the United States of America. America. It was a dream to Americans and the masses of the world. It stood for opportunity and wealth, yes, but more importantly, it stood for PRINCIPLES.

America, through it's history and mythology, from the protest, revolt and Declaration of Independence through World War II, it seemed to stand for something.

Moral principles. The PRINCIPLES OF LIBERTY. Yes, America made mistakes, but they were small, they were tolerable.

Not so anymore.

Since the early part of the 20th Century, socialistic ideas began to take hold in America: the Federal Income Tax, the Federal Reserve, the Great Depression, the welfare state, growing unemployment (the product of taxes, regulation and the Social Security system), pollution and environmental degredation (the result of NOT recognizing the property rights of individuals in the environment) the energy crises itself - these are all the legacy of socialism. Worst of all of the socialistic ideas: interventionism and war.

Each of the many failures of the US Government to follow the known principles of liberty, has led to the alienation and disillusionment of millions of people at home and abroad. These people, often rudderless and confused, saddened and disappointed, turn to other people, places, ideologies, religions for a new moral compass.


This is what happened to Timothy McVeigh and to Osama bin Laden. Each believed in the US and later became disillusioned. McVeigh decided he would be the new hero and lead the second American revolution. His attempted "shot heard round the world" on April 19th, failed to bring an uprising and because he was really a dufus, he was quickly caught. Bin Laden also became his own revolutionary leader. He uses islam and the califate as tools, but they are not his motivation. Each of these men was crushed to discover that the US had feet of clay. Each was driven to destroy the old hero and create a new one.


The world needs a nation that will be its moral compass. A moral leader. This should be THE MOST important foreign and domestic policy imperative for the US government. It should guide and control all lawmaking and policy making decisions. It is the reason that decades of foreign adventurism has so harmed the citizens and the true interests of America. It is why a war in Afghanistan against the Taliban and Al Qaeda was just, and a war in Iraq was wrong.


No individual, group or government has the right to INITATE force against any other individual, group or government.


America must become a moral leader once again. America must follow the principles of liberty. America must abolish its welfare/warfare state.

This will not be an easy task. To regain the respect of the world, to have 'free trade with all and entangling alliances with none,' to fight the enemies that the US has already created for itself and maintain moral leadership at the same time will require sacrifice and suffering. But the alternative is the fall of America.




Al Qaeda blames the US for things the US has nothing to do with like supporting Russia in Chechnya and helping China persecute muslims and low oil prices.

If don't do what Al Qaeda demands if you have any relations with any nation they don't like they are going to come after you.


There is no appeasing them away.

As for Saddam he never gave up his war and his revolutionary agenda. IF he had there would have been no war.


The way the mideast was was a threat to the US. As long as regimes and elties teach hate , incite violence , plan terror and support Al Qaeda there will be a threat to the US. In todays world they are acts of war
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the US had maintained its principles instead of becoming an interventionist socialist state there would be no Al Qaida.

The US must once again become a nation that respects the individual liberty of every person in the world. The US must be a beacon of hope. America's light of liberty can guide the way for the world. This will prevent the creation of FUTURE terrorists.

The terrorists that the US has already created will never stop. They must be caught or killed. This has to be done without violating the principles of liberty. This is the difficult challenge and the legacy the interventionists have left behind.

It is much more important to stop creating future terrorists than to catch the current ones who will eventually die anyway.
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