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bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Focuses on terrorists, not on "terror", religion or ethnicity. |
Yes, let's not focus on religion or ethnicity, because 'terrorists' are from all strata of society and not one particular religious group. I do hope the RCMP are going undercover in Bhuddist temples, Methodist Churches and and synagogues. That wouldn't be a total waste of precious resources at all.
I'm willing to bet that the next Canadian 'terrorist' plot (don't mention their religion for God sakes!) will involve people called Ahmed, Hussain, Akbar and other common Tibetan names. |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Sikhs, Tamils, Armenians and Kurds have been more active in Canada in the past than Muslim extremists. Religion definitely plays a part, but anyone who thinks it's the sole purview of Islam is fooling themselves. Religious and nationalist extremists are dangerous people.
Big Verne, I don't think the Provisional IRA had a single Muslim in its ranks.
Last edited by Bulsajo on Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Sikhs, Tamils, Armenians and Kurds have been more active in Canada in the past than Muslim extremists. |
I think you're missing the point. None of those groups are involved in activities against Western nations. In the West, the are primarily involved in fund raising for nationalist armed struggles in the 'Motherland'. Jihadist terrorism is of a different nature altogether. It is a universalist movement that seeks to impose Islam and Shariah all over the globe, using terror as a means to achieve those goals. As such Muslim terrorism is of far greater concern to Canadian national security than that of Tamils or Sikhs. |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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BV it would appear you have a lot to learn, and I have neither the time nor the inclination to see you through this curve. |
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bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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So, you are telling me that said nationalist terrorist movements represent a threat to Canadian national security? Certainly not in the same way Islamic terrorists do. Please refer to 'Bearded Man in Turban' thread, and then try and find a Sikh, Armenian, Kurdish or Tamil extremist figure who has ever advocated world domination. Are they interested in overturning Canadian democracy and instituting Shariah Law? No, only one group of extremists is interested in doing that. By the way, the bearded man in a turban is just one of many. There are plenty of other bearded men with turbans uttering the same 'Islam will dominate the world' nonsense every day. It's probably been said in Canadian mosques many, many times. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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bigverne wrote: |
So, you are telling me that said nationalist terrorist movements represent a threat to Canadian national security? Certainly not in the same way Islamic terrorists do. Please refer to 'Bearded Man in Turban' thread, and then try and find a Sikh, Armenian, Kurdish or Tamil extremist figure who has ever advocated world domination. Are they interested in overturning Canadian democracy and instituting Shariah Law? No, only one group of extremists is interested in doing that. By the way, the bearded man in a turban is just one of many. There are plenty of other bearded men with turbans uttering the same 'Islam will dominate the world' nonsense every day. It's probably been said in Canadian mosques many, many times. |
well yes, when canadian citizens are blown up on flights to/from Canada, i'd say that is a threat to canadian natl. security |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I don't care if the bomb that kills me is targeted at me or I just happen to be collateral damage- either way, I'm dead. Counter-terrorism requires communication and cooperation, by your reasoning, Big Verne, Pakistanis shouldn't lift a finger to stop al Qaeda because they're not being targetted. So what if al Qaeda blows up a building in Islamabad? They're just trying to send a message to the West, Pakistanis can safely ignore it (well, except for the collateral damage).
You're so freaking hysterically focused on Islamic extremists you can't see anything else.
Go back to my IRA example- when they were blowing up trains and lobbing mortars around London were you in favour having all Irish removed from England?
When a Muslim firebombs a synagogue- in support not of the Caliphate but in support of Palestinians- I guess that's okay then?
"Oh, you were building that bomb to blow up the Sears Tower in the US? Right then, carry on lads- nothing to do with us here in Canada, so fill your boots!" |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Canadians have reacted with shock and skepticism after 12 men and five teens were arrested over the weekend, accused of hatching a terrorist bomb plot involving three tons of ammonium nitrate. Details on the charges from the sting operation are still forthcoming. Robert Siegel talks with reporter Richard Reynolds in Toronto. |
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5452434
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I laugh whenever I read about their lawyer insinuating that they are innocent because they are from professional families. Aren't all immigrants to Canada professionals? Besides, if I were a terrorist mastermind, these are exactly the kind of people I'd want involved. For one, they are well educated and reliable. They fly low below the radar. And, more importantly, they can use their family's good reputations to stir up trouble if they get caught. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Are they interested in overturning Canadian democracy and instituting Shariah Law? No, only one group of extremists is interested in doing that. |
BV:
You're conflating two issues here. Muslim extremists have an agenda of overturning democracy, Sikh extermists don't. Granted. But that doesn't make Sikh terrorism any less of a menace. If I were a Canadian citizen on the Air India flight that exploded over the Atlantic, I would be as dead as anyone who was in the World Trade Center on 9-11, regardless of whether or not the bombers had a grand vision of overthrowing democracy. And since there have been sporadic instances of Sikh political violence in Canada since then, the arguments you make in favour of curtailing Muslim immigration to could just as easily be made about Sikhs. |
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bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Big Verne, Pakistanis shouldn't lift a finger to stop al Qaeda because they're not being targetted |
Actually, the Pakistani state is targetted by Al Qaeda, as are all Muslim states which do not adhere to strict Shariah Law, so of course it is in the interests of the Pakistani state to take on such people.
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Go back to my IRA example- when they were blowing up trains and lobbing mortars around London were you in favour having all Irish removed from England? |
No, because most Irish people integrated seamlessly into the UK. A very large percentage of English people have Irish parents or grandparents and do not adhere to an ideology that is distinctly anti-Western. In fact, it is not really terrorism that is my real concern, but the lack of assimilation by Muslim immigrants, which is of great threat to the future well-being and stability of Western nations.
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When a Muslim firebombs a synagogue- in support not of the Caliphate but in support of Palestinians- I guess that's okay then? |
Support of the 'Palestinians' often runs parallel to support for extremist Islamic goals. The fact remains that with increased Muslim immigration you will have an increase in the number of people involved in anti-democratic activities, both violent and non-violent. This simply does not exist, to anywhere near the same extent, with other immigrant groups. |
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bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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The Canadian media has shown a remarkable ability for PC self delusion in response to this incident.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1149371435839
The ties that bind 17 suspects?
ANALYSIS | `They represent the broad strata of our community,' the RCMP says.
In investigators' offices, an intricate graph plotting the links between the 17 men and teens charged with being members of a homegrown terrorist cell covers at least one wall. And still, says a source, it is difficult to find a common denominator.
Well, I can think of one very obvious common denominator.
RCMP Assistant Commissioner Mike McDonell said yesterday the suspects are all Canadian residents and the majority are citizens. "They represent the broad strata of our community. Some are students, some are employed, some are unemployed," he said.
...all of them are muslims. Probably an irrelevant fact that though, eh Commissioner?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/05/D8I22IHO0.html
Imam: Canada Suspects Didn't Seek Violence
The 17 suspects represent a spectrum of Canadian society, from the unemployed to a school bus driver to the college-educated. The 12 adults live in Toronto, Mississauga and Kingston, Ontario.
Once again, they are all from the same religious background and are all motivated by the same ideology which can be found in the Koran and Hadith. But let's ignore this and keep on pretending that this people are from a 'broad strata' of society. |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: |
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You're out of the loop, BV. Quite clearly they are all Muslim, and there is no one in Canada who is not aware of this fact. That factor is already a given, and it's quite normal for people to be looking for other common factors.
That you see this article as a collective attempt by Canadians to deny that Islamic religious extremism is a key factor is bizarre... but hilarious, so thanks for that. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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TORONTO, Ontario (CNN) -- Prosecutors allege that one of the terrorism suspects arrested in Canada last week wanted "to behead the prime minister," a defense lawyer said Tuesday.
An eight-page synopsis of the allegations against the 17 men and boys was given to defense lawyers Tuesday.
"The allegations are that my client is alleged to have been part of a plot to blow up parliament buildings in Canada, storm the CBC [Canadian Broadcasting Corp.], take over the CBC, as well as, among other things, behead the prime minister," said Gary Batasar, lawyer for defendant Steven Vikash Chand, 25.
Batasar and other defense lawyers complained Tuesday in court that they have not been allowed to meet privately with their clients, who they say are under constant watch by armed guards. He called the tight security unnecessary and unprecedented.
"This is not Guantanamo, this is Toronto, Canada," Batasar said... |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/06/canada.terror/index.html
Here's a link to the four-page indictment...
http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/terrorism/crownahmad60506inf.html
Here are links to recent events in London that might shed some light on the scope of liaison between allied intel, security, and law-enforcement services that likely went on in the shadows...
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Recent arrests in a suspected terrorist plot in Canada stem at least in part from an arrest in London last fall, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal. In October, Scotland Yard raided the London home of Younis Tsouli. According to the Journal, Tsouli was linked to the Canadian suspects.
Tsouli, a 22-year-old London man who is well-known in online Jihadist circles, allegedly ran websites for al-Qaeda. Canadian officials believe Tsouli may have been involved in the alleged terrorist plot exposed this weekend. |
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5454994
Also see...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5454991 |
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