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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| HapKi wrote: |
Concerning Korean professors getting paid more, consider this. At my school, foreign staff are exempt from lots of "job responsibilities." To name a few- Tuesday morning chapel, meetings at all level, accountability on graduate percentages being hired into the workforce, Advisory Professor duties, stricter office hours, not to mention publishing.
Of course I'd like more money. Who wouldn't? But before people start demanding same pay for equal work, make sure you know what it means. For a lot of Korean professors, their campus workplace is a big part of their life, as follows the Korean mentality. Plus, most plan on being there for the long haul- ie retirement. Foreigners with that same mindset are few and far between. |
Do not forget about these "job responsibilities."
Corrupt professors common, students say
According to students who called the JoongAng Ilbo, such research grant fraud is common among professors.
A graduate student at Seoul National University's College of Engineering said that over the past three years, he has received only half of the money he was supposed to have been paid for his research projects, with the rest going into his professor's pockets. "Student bank accounts became dummy accounts for professors," the student said. Many students say they decided not to become whistleblowers for fear of jeopardizing their academic futures.
by Baek Il-hyun and Kim Ho-jeong, JoongAng Daily (April 28, 2005)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200504/27/200504272214239309900090409041.html
Professors Cheat to Maintain SCI Scores
A professor of engineering said it was common for there to be up to ten co-authors on a paper, most of whom have had nothing to do with it.
A Professor Jeong at "C" University published some 20 international and 30 domestic papers during last year alone,... Last year, Professor Han at "E" University who had failed to be promoted managed to do so after his name was appended to his student's paper.
by Choi Won-seok, Chosun Ilbo (April 25, 2002)
http://www.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200204/200204251020.html
A Professor Beat Students who didn't speak English
"Professor Lee often beat and abused students. He hit students who didn�t work for a venture company of Gwangju recommended by him in the face for 20 minutes." The official of Kwangju Institute of Science and Technology said, "Professor Lee accepted the above facts. He was discharged from a head of the department and a disciplinary measure has been in progress."
Donga.com (September 10, 2002)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=040000&biid=2002091152368
Ghostwriters investigated
A professor who was part of an examination committee that accepted several ghostwritten theses said, "The quality of the theses was poor, but I didn't want to disqualify them. I never knew they were written by others."
by Kang Joo-an, JoongAng Daily (March 17, 2003)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200303/17/200303170205221879900090409041.html |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=19167
Yup, it's official...SNU is in the crapper. 2.3, and they DEDUCT housing? Seems like they are pushing the fact that they provide normal paid vacation; now sad.
Funny thing is, Ulsan university has a position advertised for roughly 2.6 for 9 hours (SNU is 12). Way to go, Ulsan!!
Just had beers last night with a crew from SNU . Seems that nobody is happy, and the boss is a schmuck. So much for THAT option! |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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LEMONADE WROTE, "Second week of classes, head Korean professor of the department expresses his sincere "resentment" towards the very idea that he is forced to work with foreigners and he is not given additional compensation for the trouble he has to endure."
What's the name of this xenophobic schmuch, and what school do you work for? Spread a little embarrassment around! |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Another univeristy
- 15 hours/week
- Summer or Winter Children's Camp or Other university programs
- Business Classes
- + or - 1.8 million Korean won/month
- Overtime hours possible at least 20,000 won per hour depends on career
Date: Monday, 5 June 2006
Korean Job Board
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea
+ or - 1.8 million Korean won/month |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Absolute crap. Korean never enjoyed a good reputation as a place to work and live, but at least the coin was good; now even the money end is slipping. I fear this is the beginning of the end. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote:
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Foreigners are paid less, because despite what people on this board claim, there are VERY few Western PhD's teaching university in Korea. Why would they if they can get more back home, and tenure to boot?
Most foreigners in university are BA's, (some are Masters) and hardly any publish. So again why should they be paid the same? |
I wrote:
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| I don't agree with PRagic that one has to have a higher degree to teach at a Korean university but I do agree that people who have high qualifications should be compensated equally has Koreans. |
I was not suggesting that a westerner with a B.A. should be payed the same as a Korean with a PhD. I was expressing that I believe that westerners with PhDs in Korea should be compensated equally as Korean PhD holders. As for research, I am sure you can find many Korean professors who produce little to no research. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
| Just making a point about how conditions have deteriorated. |
Conditions may have deteriorated but the situation is just as bad if not worse in the U.S. where there has been a massive shift towards the use of part-time and adjunct faculty and fixed term non-tenure track positions. The U.S. now has a two tiered system with the tenured elite on the top and non-tenured adjuncts on the bottom.
" Those few Ph.D.s who receive a full-time position at a university find that they are paid much less than tenured members of the department. They are assigned the lower-division classes, which are large � sometimes 200 to 1,000 students. These mega-classes require lecturing skills that most professors do not possess. Those untenured faculty members who perform well in mega-classes are kept on until the day of reckoning: the decision to grant them tenure, usually eight years after they go on the payroll. They are usually not re-hired unless they have published narrowly focused articles in professional journals. But mega-class professors do not have much time to do the required research.
The assistant professor is now 35 years old or older. He has not made the cut. He is now relegated to the academic underworld: the community colleges. But here there is fierce competition. Community colleges hire part-time instructors at $10 to $15 an hour. These people seek a full-time position at the community college. They need that initial foot in the door: night school courses for worn-out adults who are trying to earn an A.A. degree. Their natural enemies are the newly dismissed assistant professors from universities.
Who gets an entry-level position at Boonsdocksville State University, which in 1960 was a public schools teacher training college? New graduates with Ph.D.s from the two-dozen major universities.
Then what happens to graduates with Ph.D.s issued by Boonsdocksville State? They go straight into the community college circuit.
This has been going on ever since the fall of 1969. It is great for community college administrators, who have a never-ending supply of optimistic Ph.D.-holding graduates of all but the top two-dozen universities, plus a never-ending supply of burned-out, terrified assistant professors from top universities who did not receive tenure" http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north427.html
"There has been enormous growth in the use of part-time faculty members, and far greater growth rates for those jobs than for full-time jobs. Similarly, full-time faculty positions off the tenure track have grown." The Evolving (Eroding?) Faculty Job, http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/05/01/faculty |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Actaully, everyone that I did my Ph.D. with that wanted a university position in the States has one. Some did a short stint at a lower-tiered university while they got their first few papers out, but then they made successful moves.
The problem with Korea, at least as far as 'new Ph.D.s' are concerned, is that Korean universities insist on viewing themselves as ivy league, when in fact few, if any, would be classified as higher than a large state university in the U.S. I'm not complaining about the quality of the universities here. Rather, my point is that they should give new Ph.D.s a shot...letting them teach a standard 2 or 3 class load while concentrating on publishing. Instead, Korean universities want to pay out the ying yang for tenure or near tenured profs from the west. Irony at its bloody best. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
I was not suggesting that a westerner with a B.A. should be payed the same as a Korean with a PhD. I was expressing that I believe that westerners with PhDs in Korea should be compensated equally as Korean PhD holders. As for research, I am sure you can find many Korean professors who produce little to no research. |
Korea, like the U.S. has a two tiered system with tenured regular faculty at the top and non-tenured adjuncts at the bottom. The distinction is not between foreigners and Koreans or PHD holders vs. non-PHDs. There are plenty of Korean PHDs who are also stuck in the bottom tier of irregular employees and who don't make any more than the foreign adjucnts with only a BA or masters. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| JZer wrote: |
| I was not suggesting that a westerner with a B.A. should be payed the same as a Korean with a PhD. I was expressing that I believe that westerners with PhDs in Korea should be compensated equally as Korean PhD holders. As for research, I am sure you can find many Korean professors who produce little to no research. |
Korea, like the U.S. has a two tiered system with tenured regular faculty at the top and non-tenured adjuncts at the bottom. The distinction is not between foreigners and Koreans or PHD holders vs. non-PHDs. There are plenty of Korean PHDs who are also stuck in the bottom tier of irregular employees and who don't make any more than the foreign adjucnts with only a BA or masters. |
Korea, unlike the U.S., has a government policy that prevents foreigners from gaining full-time professorial positions in public universities.
See the visa issuance procedure for foreign professors
E-1 Status (Professors)
* In the case of a national or a public university, a foreigner is not permitted to be a full-time professor.
Immigration Bureau, Ministry of Justice, Republic of Korea
http://www.moj.go.kr/HP/ENG/eng_03/eng_306030.jsp |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Some universities in the west will beg foreigners to teach at their university. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Great points. I wonder if things will open up a bit with permanent residency.
I did my Ph.D. at a top-ten U.S. school in my dicipline. My disseration committee consisted of a Singaporean, an Indian, and a Scot, and it was a fantastic experience both personally and academically. Incidentally, I have heard complaints from several faculty members in various departments in the States and Canada regarding the way they are percieved and treated by Korean students. They're not impressed, and there seems to be a general level of satisfaction with the new TOEFL essay being made mandatory. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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from a national university
Full-time Instructor for Teaching University and Center classes
Salary: 2,100,000 won a month / 80 hours (plus overtime payment of 30,000won/hour)
On-campus furnished housing
June 2006
compare with this national university position
approximately 10 hours of teaching a week
Salary: 2.6-3 million won per month
(depending on qualifications)
Furnished one bedroom apt. - on campus
June 2006
excerpts of job ads from the Korean Job Board
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/ |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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One is for a unigwon position, the other for a departmental position. You'd supposedly have to have the MA or Ph.D. to get the departmental position at a national university. Many schools, however, are having the unigwon instructors teach for-credit freshman classes.
This begs the question, why don't they have Korean taught by an institute? Or basic, freshman math? Why not outsource the whole freakin degree except for a couple of core courses in the major? These university English programs are really getting to be a joke...the laughing stock of the global ESL industry. |
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Ethan Allen Hawley
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: Youngnam University, vs a hagwon job |
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I was talking the other day with a friend about their current hagwon job. They said that they used to work at a university, and, in light of the current thread on universities, I thought it was a good time for a slight variation on the topic. Any feedback, or ideas? What do you think?
Youngnam University, Gyeongsan city, Gyeongsan Bukdo
is hiring right now.
Be aware:
the coordinator (Prof.KimMijeong) and supervisor (KimSunkyoung) were, when my friend worked there, good at smiling and sounding professional and convincing; well, for job interviews, anyway.
And it's a university job, right? With nice university students, and those real holidays, so, apparently, they could pretend not to think about the really low pay and high number of hours per week.
It was easier to ignore such features of the job at interview time, said my friend, when one had no idea of the type of schedule to be demanded of the average teacher. Average schedules included split shifts at least three days a week, work on Saturdays on demand including sometimes in holidays, and extra 'office hours' that are not mentioned in interviews or job advertisements.
The 'different than average' schedule included a full day journey to Gumi, on the other side of Daegu, meaning leaving home before 7 A.M. and a return home after midnight for another co-worker there. That worker's schedule for the Gumi day was preceeded by working late at night.
Perhaps such matters would have been easier to accept for my friend and the colleagues if there was a fair level of transparency and adequate communication from and with management and administration departments. Unfortunately, the opposite was usually the case to varying degrees, and in all kinds of ways.
According to a colleague of that friend, however, the young supervisor would often mouth platitudes such as "Let me know if there's anything I can do for you, to make you feel more comfortable here." Then, when those workers phoned or went to see her in person about various issues, they would usually be told: "That's not my responsibility. I think you have to take care of that yourself. Get your foreign or Korean friends to help you with that."
The classic example of this was when that friend and that colleague had just started working there one cold March, and had just moved into their new apartments, to find that the gas had been turned off in one, and entirely disconnected in the other. When the colleague phoned the supervisor directly, the only message was to turn some switch, or to get a friend to help them out. Having been promised their own apartment, they were then left - new to town and so quite obviously without friends nearby - in the cold.
Now, you can put a certain degree of attitude down to cultural differences, but, I ask you, what other cultures treat either guests, or new employees, in this way?
And sure, horrid hagwon stories abound, but, should not a place of 'higher learning' also represent a higher level of sophistication in all other matters? Frankly, after all those stories my friend told me about the place, I feel a lot happier about my nice hagwon job, with simple block shifts in the afternoons, making 2 or more a month, and with greater access to a degree of influence over what goes on in the day to day workplace. |
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