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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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 Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: What America Can't/Won't do in Darfur... |
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With the shift in US foreign policy, there was tough talk from the Bush administration about changing the direction of "The New World Order"...
JUST WATCHING
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| In a reflective moment shortly before Memorial Day, President Bush told reporters that he had come to regret the �tough talk� he used when taking the country to war. He rued tagging Osama bin Laden with the phrase �wanted dead or alive� and taunting Iraqi insurgents to �bring it on.� The fight has not gone so simply, and, he said, �I learned some lessons about expressing myself maybe in a little more sophisticated manner.� The President�s wartime woes are hardly limited to his rhetoric, but as long as he is calling his own bluff it�s worth remembering another line of foreign-policy swagger. Shortly after Bush took office, an adviser gave him a report on the Clinton Administration�s policy of inaction during the Rwandan genocide, and on it the President wrote, �Not on my watch!� |
Not on my watch....sure, that is a good one....
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| it has never been the American way to venture abroad to stop mass slaughter by force. We entered the Second World War nearly three years into the fight, and then not to save Europe�s Jews but in response to a direct attack on our territory and, ultimately, to repel Fascist aggression. We did not save Cambodia from itself, and did nothing while eight hundred thousand Rwandans were killed. And, when Europe was again disfigured by concentration camps and ethnic cleansing, in the Balkans, we waited for years before pacifying Bosnia and, later, Kosovo with aerial bombardments. (Even then, the logic was as much strategic�to bring a defiant dictator to heel and restore order on nato�s turf�as it was humanitarian.) We have not sent forces into Congo, although it has been riddled with massacres in the past decade, nor did we send troops to southern Sudan during the civil war there that claimed more than a million lives in the past two decades. |
With unilateralism in vogue and the resultant ostensible de-clawing of the UN by it's most powerful members....with the US embroiled in Iraq and others trying to pick up the slack...Darfur has become less and less important in world affairs....
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| At such times in the past, we turned to the community of nations, and although that proved, for the most part, a disappointing instrument, it is even more unsettling to find ourselves led by an Administration whose incompetent unilateralism has weakened America�s influence around the world. As the catastrophe in Darfur confronts us with the limitations of our power, the idea of a common international humanity appears as remote as ever. |
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Also I recommend Gourevitch's book We Wish to Inform You That Tomorrow We Will Be Killed with Our Families about the Rwandan genocide.... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The US has done more than anyone else about the Sudan. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LOL! Yeah right, while America was busy fighting a ridiculous and immoral war in Iraq, Sudan and now Somlia are being run by Muslim extremists. Way to go, I want them to do something for the people suffering but the US and their lies have meant that there are now 2 more countries in the world who hate America and will work to help destroy it. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Well, here's what we can do.
1. Raise awareness. Talk about it to people, write letters to the editor, etc.
2. Write to your elected representatives. Use e-mail and be curteous.
3. Give money to reputable charities helping out, such as Doctors Without Borders, which has their site set up for you to use your credit/debit card. No registration necessary. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| LOL! Yeah right, while America was busy fighting a ridiculous and immoral war in Iraq, Sudan and now Somlia are being run by Muslim extremists. Way to go, I want them to do something for the people suffering but the US and their lies have meant that there are now 2 more countries in the world who hate America and will work to help destroy it. |
U.S. calls for sanctions on Sudan
From CNN Senior U.N. Correspondent Richard Roth
Friday, July 23, 2004 Posted: 2023 GMT (0423 HKT)
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| UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- The United States is calling for U.N. sanctions against Sudan if the Khartoum government does not stop militia attacks in the Darfur region. |
that is more than anyone else did.
by the way why was the Iraq war immoral?
The US got rid of one of the great killers in history who would have done much worse had he been allowed to go free. Is there any doubt? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Has the US forbidden EU forces from acting in Darfur? I don't think they have. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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I never said anything about Canada doing something or being great (on this topic) Canada's history in Africa is very disgusting and disheartening. I have met Romeo Dollaire and spoken with him as well I have listened to his lecture, read his book and seen the movie. What Canada has failed to do in Africa is disgusting and very sad, especially when we have huge budget surpluses and a very talented dipolmatic core.
The solution to Sudan and the other African nightmares in progress, is the UN needs a military trained in peacekeeping and peace enforcement. It should be funded by all memebers of the UN (based on their GDP) and it should be made up of volunteers from around the world and be at the disposal of the UN and the Security Council. Darfur needs money and doctors and medical supplies and lots of other thingts, but first and formeost it needs a military force that is seen as impartial to keep the government in Khartoum in check. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:35 am Post subject: ... |
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So, we've sent half a billion dollars in aid, and, at the same time, women are going out looking for fire wood because they'll only get raped while their husbands would be murdered?
Are we providing fire wood?
Maybe we should if we're not.
Sorry to be absurd for a moment, but, for $500 million, we could probably pay these people to the soldier not to butcher minorities. (I know, I know the implications, but I thought I'd offer that for perspective).
And I don't see this as a US problem. It is something that the world should deal with (meaning not the EU). I agree with Octavius that the UN should be empowered so as to be able to handle things like this.
That involves overhauling the UN, but that would be the right and righteous move.
Otherwise, the best thing to come of this will be an Oscar-winning movie. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Sudan and now Somlia are being run by Muslim extremists. Way to go, I want them to do something for the people suffering but the US and their lies have meant that there are now 2 more countries in the world who hate America and will work to help destroy it. |
Do the people in these countries bear any responsibility for the state they are in? Does their culture play any part in how their society has developed? Or are all of these people ignorant children, who if not 'rescued' by the US then have a right to hate it?
It is not the job of the USA, or the West to help Muslim nations develop into democracies, and most efforts to do so will not be successful. However, the people of Darfur should certainly be helped.
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| The solution to Sudan and the other African nightmares in progress, is the UN needs a military trained in peacekeeping and peace enforcement. It should be funded by all memebers of the UN (based on their GDP) and it should be made up of volunteers from around the world and be at the disposal of the UN and the Security Council. |
And what happens when any move to have a security force in Sudan is vetoed by nations under pressure from the Arab League? What use will 'multilateralism' be then? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: ... |
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OK. How about the Congo?
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| Roman Catholic 50%, Protestant 20%, Kimbanguist 10%, Muslim 10%, other syncretic sects and indigenous beliefs 10% |
If it's not our duty to rescue Muslims, then it might very well be our duty to rescue "Roman Catholics".
How about them apples? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| If it's not our duty to rescue Muslims, then it might very well be our duty to rescue "Roman Catholics". |
You seem to have problems reading. I didn't say it was not our duty to rescue Muslims. I said it was not our duty to help Muslims build democracies. That is up to them, and if their nations lurch towards Shariah it is not our fault, as Octavius seemed to imply.
However, we should do what we can to stop genocide, whoever is on the receiving end of it, which the multilateral UN failed to do, in large part due to the actions of Muslim countries which seemed to have few problems with their Muslim brothers being massacred. Perhaps because they are Black.
By the way, what point are your trying to make about the Congo? |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Throwing money at a problem and supporting sanctions (I thought those don't work Joo???  ) aren't exactly putting your money where your mouth is (pardon the irony of the pun) The US has promised commitment, but as of yet, it hasn't really shown through as it should...
..as for Canada, they have offered both military and police force peacekeepers for UNMIS on top of financial aid...which was divided into 50 million in humanitarian aid, and $190 million (second only to the US) to support the existing African Union mission (AMIS)
But I think that this is besides the point, the current world situation, sees the US, the supposed benevolant superpower, fighting for regime change and humanitarianism in Iraq, but showing little regard at least in the form of muscle for the real genocidal risk in Sudan.....
Why? Because they can't and won't...they talk the talk, throw money, yet don't want to help...the US will always be criticized for not doing enough because they have cast themselves in this role....all this talk of Destroying Evil and Ending Suffering and Fighting the Good Fight is called Bullsh*t if you don't actually buck up when it counts....
Sudan has the Evil, the Suffering, the Genocide right now....with the UN toothless and the US (or for that matter the EU - You are absolutely right Kuros) not stepping up and being the nation they said they would be...successful intervention in Sudan doesn't seem likely...and in 5 years times we will be reading books about the Sudanese genocide and placing them beside our ones about Rawanda, Kosovo, Bosnia, Cambodia, the Holocaust, because once again, 48,000 black civilians are not worth 1 white soldier... |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
So, we've sent half a billion dollars in aid, and, at the same time, women are going out looking for fire wood because they'll only get raped while their husbands would be murdered?
Are we providing fire wood?
Maybe we should if we're not.
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There is a NGO that has been created whose sole purpose is to provide the people of Darfur something similar to portable stove-tops . I kid you not. A friend of mine fwd'd me a link to their website. I think i deleted the e-mail, but I'll check later. |
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