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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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 Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
But if it's NOT a big conspiracy, as you claim, then she wouldn't be sticking her neck out, would she? She would merely be introducing a productive idea into the mix. Why would anyone have any reason to chide her?
You may say that my telling the boss to shove the crap contract up his ass is only a drop in the bucket (and it is), but I have been reading more and more posts by experienced teachers who are also taking the initiative. Sooner or later (probably later), public schools will have to seriously revamp contracts to entice the creme de la creme of the ESL world. After all, it's only the FUTURE OF KOREA we're talking about here.
But they don't get that. Not yet, anyway. The current position of the Korean government and hogwon owners is to hire the least common denominator teachers, e.g. the noobs who don't know s**t from shinola, who they can pay meager salaries to and push around when the need arises. |
As I said, I can't see why we deserve the bonus, and I haven't seen that layed out in this thread. I still don't buy into the conspiracy theory...it's up front. The reason teachers don't know about it when asked is that it isn't thought of as a "bonus". It's part and parcel of the job in Korea.
Why my wife doesn't stick her neck out is quite simple: there is no cause. She would look like a mad crusader suddenly screaming about "unfair" treatment when first, her foreign husband is both happy and well-rewarded, and second, there is no issue to scream about. This is a non-issue in many ways. It makes for an interesting discussion on a message board, but it isn't something anyone, anywhere is talking about. If you think she could "take one for the team", well, even I don't want that to happen, as I can't see the cause in the fight....yet. 
I'm all for better contracts, more pay, etc..., but on this bonus issue, I just can't fathom why we should get it. It would be nice, but I know it will never happen, and am fine with that.
What I consider more realistic are higher wages, bigger raises, more vacation time; in a word, recognition. Recognition of hard work, innovation in the classroom and our longer hours. For those of us who have 'added' skills that experience in Korea brings, there should be even greater rewards.
I have recieved all that I have mentioned, but first, I had to prove I was worth all of it. Our reputation precedes us in Korea, and it takes some work to break out of that mold. Once I did that, I asked for more and got it. Like I said, I have good pay, adequate vacation time, any resources I ask for and overall I have been treated very well.
I pushed for these things at re-sign time, and they came through. These were realistic requests, something I am not at all convinced the bonus is. Had I demanded that I recieve the same kind of package as the Korean teachers, a doubling of my wage every other month, then I would have been met with a "Sorry. We want to keep you, but we just can't do that. It's not in our budget, and the BOE won't fund such a proposal."
GEPIK schools are funded by the gov't...our wages are fully paid. Many schools who hire foreign teachers privately (like mine), simply can't afford to give that much more money. So, one needs to take this argument to the government, not to the school. Making the schools sweat bullets isn't the way; one needs to protest this on a national level.
One more thing is that we may not be on the same page at all. I don't work in Seoul where foreigners are taken for granted. I work in the sticks, where it is kind of rare to see a foreigner working. This raises my value a bit more than living in Seoul, and the country schools put much more effort into keeping employees, in my opinion. Cubanlord seems to be having the same experience in Wonju, not a hick town, but hardly a major center. He proved himself, and upon re-signing negotiations, he asked and recieved. Jinju as well perhaps, working in the country has perhaps brought him more benefits than he/she may recieve working in Seoul.
I'm not sure where you are mack. I can only speak from what I know, and my knowledge in this (city/country treatment differentiation) is far from exhaustive.
mack...one straight question asked because I really want to know where your thinking is on this: Why do you feel you (we?) deserve the bonus? |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure where you are mack. I can only speak from what I know, and my knowledge in this (city/country treatment differentiation) is far from exhaustive.
mack...one straight question asked because I really want to know where your thinking is on this: Why do you feel you (we?) deserve the bonus? |
I'm north of Seoul, in Uijeongbu, which is hardly the sticks. In fact, you could say no difference exists between working in Uijeongbu and working in Seoul, other than the fact that it's farther from Itaewon.
I've already mentioned why I think we deserve the bonus. We teach more hours (and that's really the thick and thin of it after all) and we have to work vacations (in the GEPIK/EPIK contracts).
Some would argue that Korean teachers have to work Saturdays, but that's not the case anymore. In many (most?) schools, teachers only teach two Saturdays a month now, and in some they don't have to teach any.
You might argue that Korean teachers have more paperwork. But that's only for homeroom teachers, and more specifically, department heads. Other than the department heads (who truly do have an assload of paperwork to deal with), the teachers at my school are not so bogged down. My co-teacher complains once every once in a while, but when I ask her what she has to do it's just busy work that she could handle while sitting in front of the TV!
You could argue that Korean teachers have to make and grade tests, hand out report cards, and deal with irritating mothers. I will concede those points. All of that stuff sucks. However, most foreign teachers that I know have been asked to create after school English programs from the ground up, which takes plenty of blood, sweat, and tears. I warrant that creating a syllabus from scratch (especially if you care enough to do a bang-up job) is much, much more difficult than grading tests or writing report cards every once in a while. Now, dealing with the moms....I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy...
So, in the end, Korean teachers really don't have it so bad after all. At least not the ones I'm working with. They party by night, or take care of their families, or pursue their hobbies; in other words, their lives do not revolve around schoolwork anymore than yours or mine do.
Finally, I question the government's reasoning behind deciding not to give us a bonus (other than the obvious pecuniary issues). When I accepted the position at this school I became a member of the teaching community here. Why am I the ONLY ONE excluded from the club? I work my ass off, put in my hours, go to all the stupid dinners and excursions, etc. It just doesn't make sense my friend. It just doesn't make sense. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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All right kids.
I am going to do this again: don't you think this all would make more sense if you new the pay scales for the Korean teachers? RR's posts(as far as I can see) don't cover the raise and pay schemes, which you could use to evaulate your compensation in relation to theirs. And whether we deserve the bonuses or not.
After 5 years of 학원 antics, I worked at a private high school for 2 years, and all the Korean teachers knew what to expect and when they would receive their bonuses and how much they would be--it was standardized. When I came back for this year into a public school(I may be teaching in one of the public FLHSs after I finish my degree) I asked the Gyeonggi Board of Education and they have said that in the next year or two(may be true, may be not true) they will have a long-term scheme for NETs that is roughly equivalent to the compensation of the Korean teachers. I don't totally buy it because I don't think the board has its head wrapped around the idea of long term foreigners yet, but they assure me they really are working it out.
In the meantime, wouldn't the aforementioned pay/bonus scale help this whole "discussion" out? Why can't either one of you get this from the people you know? Just a bunch of opinions(and opinions are like...) without the little datums, is it not? |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| In the meantime, wouldn't the aforementioned pay/bonus scale help this whole "discussion" out? Why can't either one of you get this from the people you know? Just a bunch of opinions(and opinions are like...) without the little datums, is it not? |
You assume that only one pay scale is extant? I doubt all those "great teachers" would gravitate towards Gangnam if the pay scale was uniform. I'll have my better half do some digging and see what she can come up with. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
| All right kids. |
| flotsam wrote: |
| This is lovely girls. |
| flotsam wrote: |
| Read closer sweetheart....catfight...Hugs and kisses. |
| flotsam wrote: |
| ([sic] On tanks: as in Panzers up your ass freaky avatar boy.) |
| flotsam wrote: |
| And if you could provide...you would be making yourself useful. |
| Walter wrote: |
You're like a child who wanders in in the middle of a movie and wants to know--
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Demophobe wrote: |
| flotsam wrote: |
| All right kids. |
| flotsam wrote: |
| This is lovely girls. |
| flotsam wrote: |
| Read closer sweetheart....catfight...Hugs and kisses. |
| flotsam wrote: |
| ([sic] On tanks: as in Panzers up your ass freaky avatar boy.) |
| flotsam wrote: |
| And if you could provide...you would be making yourself useful. |
| Walter wrote: |
You're like a child who wanders in in the middle of a movie and wants to know--
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You're saying you don't know then? |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In the meantime, wouldn't the aforementioned pay/bonus scale help this whole "discussion" out? Why can't either one of you get this from the people you know? Just a bunch of opinions(and opinions are like...) without the little datums, is it not? |
You assume that only one pay scale is extant? I doubt all those "great teachers" would gravitate towards Gangnam if the pay scale was uniform. I'll have my better half do some digging and see what she can come up with. |
No. That makes sense to me. I just assume that each board has it's own scale somewhere. (That would be an interesting comparison as well.) Cheers.
I have a friend looking into it for Gyeonggi--she says there is one, but none of the Korean teachers really pay attention to it: cultural dis-inclination to focus on the amount of pay or ask about it--so she has no idea where to find it and has to search a little. This is all, of course, assuming that the scale is adhered to to any degree.
Demophobe seems to be prety uninformed and having her days, so I'll ask her again when the moon cycle changes. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
You're saying you don't know then? |
You have now arrived, but for all the wrong reasons.
I find you somewhat annoying, and because of your a) "humor" and/or b) condescending attitude, I am disinclined to make myself of any use to you.
Or...I just don't want to.
Clear enough?
Troll away on me, tiny.
Edit: So I don't come off sounding unreasonable, I believe you to be the sock of a pseudonym I didn't care for (beyond "idealjetsam"), and so it continues. If you aren't the sock, then I just don't care for the way you address strangers. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Don't do the sock thing. But one thing I have noticed on this board by now is that anyone who yells sock, has one.
And interestingly enough the very first PM I received from anyone on this board was from you--my how times change, or not.
But I understand, when you are arguing based on nothing but jackass opinion, it's easy to get upset by someone noticing and suggesting you try a little cocktail of reason + data.
Unsettling, I imagine.
I am done with you now. Ta. |
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