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ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
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 Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: One reason not to go to Indonesia |
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I think its always important to speak up in any way you can when you see something that you can change. In the case of an ex-pat, we can certainly speak with our currency that is so often welcomed in asian countries even though we may be looked upon as something less than cattle.
Indonesia has released a Muslim cleric named Ba`asyir from jail. he was linked to the Bali bombing and another terrorist strike. In Bali, over 220 westerners (mostly Australians) were killed when their nightclub was bombed.
Ba`asyir has been long linked to promotion of radicalism and inciting terrorist ideals to young people. Because of his release, his 'followers' will once again listen to his interpretation of the Koran that somehow states that westerners should die and that terrorism is blessed by Allah.
So this is fair warning to all of you future travellers. You might not want to be in a place where the threat upon your life has been heightened in the name of a religion. If you do decide to go, keep your eyes open and your running shoes on in case you have to make a quick exit.
Poet |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Boycott indeed ...
Real reflection of the ruling elite's "values" 
Isn't that female Aussie "drug mule" still behind bars?
How many people did she "kill" with her oversized boogie board?
Oh well, just give her another 20 years or so, and if she's lucky maybe they'll conclude they've had their "justice"  |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a link to the bbc article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5075908.stm
In typical bbc fashion they leave it to the reader to look for important details of the case like what charge he was originally convicted of and what charges were dropped, why, and how strong the case was against him. Looks like they were pretty sure he was part of the conspiracy but didn't have enough evidence to convict.
So, that's good news in that due process was observed but definitely bad news that the man perhaps more responsible than anyone else for 202 deaths walks free - free to continue brainwashing ignorant saps into blowing themselves up.
It's sick how ignorant the Bali bombers were. They thought the people in the clubs were G.I.s ffs!!
It's cases like this that justify (or are used to justify) special anti-terrorist laws and holding people in Guantanamo Bay. If the US could only be relied upon not to keep a 'suspect' locked up for 3 years before finally getting around to realising they grabbed a sheep farmer off the side of a hill who had nothing to do with anything...
Excuse my ranting. But this is the forum for it. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| his interpretation of the Koran that somehow states that westerners should die and that terrorism is blessed by Allah. |
Quite a few people seem to have the same interpretation. |
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ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| I know...isn't that sad? |
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yoda
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: Incheon, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Your analysis is unfortunate because Indonesia is a mixed bag of ethnicities. A lot of the tourism ends up in Bali, which is predominantly (over 90%?) Hindu. So by boycotting Bali you are helping the terrorists with their jihad on non-muslim Indonesians. Bali is a beautiful place. By all means, go there. The Balinese have suffered greatly at the hands of the islamic fundamentalists and you want them to suffer further. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Seriously. I'd love to go to Indo. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| If you are all so principled, go boycott Saudi oil, the main driving force behind Islamic terror. As someone above said, what will you acheive by crippling the livelihood of mainly Hindu Balinese? |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| yoda wrote: |
| Your analysis is unfortunate because Indonesia is a mixed bag of ethnicities. A lot of the tourism ends up in Bali, which is predominantly (over 90%?) Hindu. So by boycotting Bali you are helping the terrorists with their jihad on non-muslim Indonesians. Bali is a beautiful place. By all means, go there. The Balinese have suffered greatly at the hands of the islamic fundamentalists and you want them to suffer further. |
Someone is actually thinking......excellent point |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| If you are all so principled, go boycott Saudi oil, the main driving force behind Islamic terror. As someone above said, what will you acheive by crippling the livelihood of mainly Hindu Balinese? |
Yes, but terrorism now is small potatoes compared to what's coming. Wait 50 years, when the oil in the middle-east runs out and the only natural ressource they have left is sand. Guess who's going to get blamed for that. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| jaganath69 wrote: |
| If you are all so principled, go boycott Saudi oil, the main driving force behind Islamic terror. As someone above said, what will you acheive by crippling the livelihood of mainly Hindu Balinese? |
Yes, but terrorism now is small potatoes compared to what's coming. Wait 50 years, when the oil in the middle-east runs out and the only natural ressource they have left is sand. Guess who's going to get blamed for that. |
And when that glorious day arrives they'll have nought to throw at us but rocks. What does this have to do with boycotting Indonesia anyhow? |
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nasigoreng
Joined: 14 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| yoda wrote: |
| Your analysis is unfortunate because Indonesia is a mixed bag of ethnicities. A lot of the tourism ends up in Bali, which is predominantly (over 90%?) Hindu. So by boycotting Bali you are helping the terrorists with their jihad on non-muslim Indonesians. Bali is a beautiful place. By all means, go there. The Balinese have suffered greatly at the hands of the islamic fundamentalists and you want them to suffer further. |
All i care about is:
will i be safe?
Will i feel welcome?
will i have a good time?
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Islamic state only a step away: Scholars
Ridwan Max Sijabat, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta
Indonesia will turn into a Islamic state if the government does nothing to counter the violence committed by hard-line religious groups or the repressive, sharia-inspired bylaws passed by local governments, moderate Muslim scholars warn.
Dozens of regions across the country have enacted sharia-style bylaws and lawmakers are currently deliberating the controversial pornography bill that is much opposed by moderate scholars and human rights activists.
Muslim hard-liners, meanwhile, have launched a series of violent attacks on minority Muslim sects in the country and closed down churches in Java that do not have permits to operate. Despite these groups openly acting outside the law, in many cases police have done nothing to apprehend the attackers.
Neither has the central government scrutinized the regional sharia-style bylaws, which legal experts say are often in violation of the Constitution.
Speaking to a discussion on pluralism hosted by the Wahid Institute -- a group set up to promote religious tolerance by former president Abudurrahman "Gus Dur" Wahid -- here Tuesday, institute executive director Ahmad Suaedy said Indonesia was just a step away from turning into an Islamic state.
The young Muslim intellectual said the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) had encouraged intolerance by issuing several controversial fatwa. This had inspired hard-line groups such as the Islam Defenders Front (FPI) and the Indonesian Mujahidin Assembly (MMI) to attack Muslim sects and those of other faiths, he said.
"The hard-liners are using these edicts to legitimize their violent acts, while MUI has perversely used this violence to justify its fatwa. The FPI and MMI are taking advantage of people's religious illiteracy to make trouble," Suaedy said
Last year, the MUI issued fatwa banning pluralism, liberalism and secularism. It also branded the Muslim-offshoot Ahmadiyah sect heretical because the group recognizes another prophet after Muhammad. Liberal Islam and Ahmadiyah centers around the country were later attack by hard-line vigilante groups.
Muhammad Husein, the executive director of the Fahmina Institute in Cirebon said the edicts went against the spirit of human rights laws and tarnished the image of Islam as a peace-loving religion.
"Despite their non-binding nature, the fatwa are in line with the emergence of hard-line groups who fight for their political interests by abusing Islam," he said.
Suaedy said the government should deal strictly with all religious groups that broke the law.
"It would be better if they, along with MUI, were disbanded," he said.
Suaedy noted MUI was established by the New Order regime to maintain the religious status quo. However, it was presently acting more like a state-owned company, wielding considerable political influence and receiving public money from the government.
"(MUI) has raised huge funds from the issuance of halal labels for company products," he said.
Neng Dara Affiah, of the Nadhlatul Ulama-affiliated women's organization, Fatayat NU, said MUI's fatwa against mixed marriages dealt a great blow to religious tolerance in the country.
Until firm action was taken against members of violent hard-line groups, the government was not properly protecting the rights of people from minority faiths, she said.
Speakers at the forum also highlighted a new book written by Gus Dur -- Kala Fatwa Menjadi Penjara (When Fatwa Becomes a Prison).
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*natural disasters
*Rising fundamentalist islam and intolerance
*The highest number of reported Bird Flu cases
*The threat of terrorist bombings
*A lawless government that's rotten to the core.
*Scams and cons targeting foreigners (especially in Bali).
I can think of LOTS of reasons not to go to Indonesia!!!
A boycott is just silly. The indonesians are doing a fine job ruining their country's reputation and economy. Anyone should be able to see that this isn't an ideal tourist spot.
Here's a story about an Australian model arrested in Bali on by police who planted drugs on her:
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2006_06_04/story_1663.asp |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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indonesia is a stable democracy.
Its economy has been doing quite well the past few years.
Plenty of worse countries out there.
yes
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| Will i feel welcome? |
If you can't feel welcome there, I'd say you've got a personality problem. 
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| will i have a good time? |
If you can't have a good time there, then i'd suggest skipping most of s.east asia. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| the edicts went against the spirit of human rights laws and tarnished the image of Islam as a peace-loving religion. |
I think it lost the 'peace-loving' tag quite some time ago. |
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nasigoreng
Joined: 14 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
indonesia is a stable democracy.
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Indonesia is not stable. The past 10 years have demonstrated that: Terrible sectarian violence in Kalimantan, Ambon, and even Jakarta (with suspicious ties to the Indonesian military).
Can there be democracy without rule of law?
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| Will i feel welcome? |
If you can't feel welcome there, I'd say you've got a personality problem.
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Then there's definitely something wrong with me... i live in Jakarta
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| will i have a good time? |
If you can't have a good time there, then i'd suggest skipping most of s.east asia. |
I've been to Thailand, Cambodia, The Philippines and Indonesia/Bali (4 times). When i'm on vacation... i want to r-e-l-a-x It's tiring waving off all the beggars and vendors...but all in all... i wouldn't mind surfing it up at Hardrock right about now.
If indonesia wants more tourists to come, then they need to prove to the world that they are serious about combating terrorism. |
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