|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ed4444 wrote: |
What we need here is some statistics from Real Reality to illustrate how few Korean Ajummas would be willing to pick up an umbrella dropped by a foreigner. |
Will a quotation suffice?
"Seoul National University Sociology professor Han Sang-jin pointed out that the extremely low level of maturity of people's mindsets, which lacks consideration for others, is associated with a social culture in which people do not exchange greetings. Professor Han said that due to the 'rushing modernization,' referring to a mad dash to accomplish one's goals such as attaining social success, Korean society is seriously lacking in consideration of other people."
A Society that Spares Greetings
by Yi-Young Cho and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (January 7, 2005)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2005010857368 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Jasobang
Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Location: Bucheon
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: My morning rant |
|
|
So, when I picked up my umbrella, I gave her dirty look, shook my head in shame at her and impolitely said "thanks"!
......and that was the high road?? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
I_Am_Wrong
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Location: whatever
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Apparently taking the high road means BEING A BABY, WHINING ABOUT NOT BEING IN CANADA, AND WRITING LAME ASS POSTS. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Gideon

Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Location: Seoul
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I_AM_WRONG WROTE:
Quote: |
Apparently taking the high road means BEING A BABY, WHINING ABOUT NOT BEING IN CANADA, AND WRITING LAME ASS POSTS. |
I guess its not ok to complain on this board.. maybe she was just venting her frustration... my god.. give her a break. Maybe shes new to Korea and hasn't adjusted to Korean life.
What??? Like you never vented to friends or family about some ascpect regarding Korea? You say shes WHINING? Your post boils my blood.
I'll wager a bet, there is no single western person who HASN'T experienced some kind of cultural indifferences in Korea.
Demianamar wrote:
Quote: |
You have to understand that I'm CANADIAN, and if that happened on the bus at home, there's no doubt that I would've had the umbrella handed back to me WITH a nod and a smile within 2 seconds! Yes, I know this isn't Canada. Yes I know Aummas are on foreigner's lists for having done much worse. BUT, I can't help but miss the politeness, the cordiality and the, perhaps excessive, common decency for fellow human beings! Say what you will about all the flaws in Canada, but I won't be looking back on S.K for more then 2 minutes on my way out of here. |
Please don't shout the words "CANADIAN". And that we all must understand norms in Canada. Being Canadian won't get you a free pass for sympathy. All westerners experience similar acts of (what we define) rudeness.
Get over it and move on..
Last edited by Gideon on Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
periwinkle
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think the OP responded the way the average person back home would respond. I also think the average person would have been at least slightly irritated that she ignored him as well as gave him a dirty look. She was unkind. The average person doesn't repond well to unkindness. So why some of you who are attacking the OP is beyond me. This is a big reason (I think) why there are a lot of lurkers on this board- they are afraid of getting flamed (well, at least it was for me when I first came across message boards). Some of you seem to have very thick skin, but for other people, especially newbies, it takes a while to develop that thickness (heh, I almost wrote "sickness" LOL). Anyway, lay off and show some compassion. Sheesh. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Going back to the OP, I doubt I would have gotten that annoyed: I would have just assumed she was fighting a harder battle. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: My morning rant |
|
|
demianamar wrote: |
So I'm on the bus this morning and I'm sitting at the back on the bench that's much higher then the seats in front of me. I drop my umbrella with in reach of an ajumma. She looks down at the umbrella, looks back at me and rudely turns back to stare at nothing. I now have to re-adjust all stuff in my hands, step down and get my stupid umbrella. Though not surprised at her passive, unhelpful behaviour it was too early in the morning for me not to still get annoyed. So, when I picked up my umbrella, I gave her dirty look, shook my head in shame at her and impolitely said "thanks"!
WHY???? Why are people so freggin' rude. You have to understand that I'm CANADIAN, and if that happened on the bus at home, there's no doubt that I would've had the umbrella handed back to me WITH a nod and a smile within 2 seconds! Yes, I know this isn't Canada. Yes I know Aummas are on foreigner's lists for having done much worse. BUT, I can't help but miss the politeness, the cordiality and the, perhaps excessive, common decency for fellow human beings! Say what you will about all the flaws in Canada, but I won't be looking back on S.K for more then 2 minutes on my way out of here. |
How old are you? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
periwinkle
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've got a story. I was at O'Hare trying to get some money out of an ATM and I was wicked tired. The transaction failed because the machine ran out of cash. Not thinking, I went to the front of the line at the machine next to me. HOOOOLLLLYYYYYYYY crap, did this girl (who was waiting in said line) go off on me!! I've never had anyone in my life go off on me like that. I just wasn't thinking, and normally I would've gone to the back of the line and waited patiently, but again, I wasn't functioning on all 6 cylinders. Ah, poor me- I went to the back of the line with my tail between my legs and a mumbled apology (with tears in my eyes).... My point is is that if you go against social norms (not picking up someone's belonging that fell in your vicinity; cutting in line, etc., etc.), you are likely to incur wrath. So, I think the OP handled the situation well. The woman that I (mistakenly) offended was just vicious. I swear, I've never, ever seen anyone get that angry in my life....
Any other stories??? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
demianamar
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
WOW....a simple morning rant certainly pits foreigner against foreigner. Well, in my books there's a difference between venting and whining....say what you will, I was VENTING!. Yes my limbs are intact and thankfully I'm not physically disabled.
I'd like to think that if you were in a bad mood and didn't work with one English speaking human being that you would have an outlet of some sort where you wouldn't get trashed for having your own opinions. Did I take the 'high road'? no.......I was being sarcastic, but alas without conveying the tone of voice sarcasm is lost.
I do hope for those of you who seem to have become numb to the idea of common sense of decency that you're never caught in a situation where you really do need help and not a single person around you is willing to give you a hand. It starts with the small acts.
Thanks to the ones who are always helpful with their replies...it's unfortunate that so many posters have beome so bitter in their responses...perhaps you've been here too long...maybe that's the difference between the lifers and the rest of us. I really don't care though, you have your opinions and I have mine. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
demianamar wrote: |
(1) I do hope for those of you who seem to have become numb to the idea of common sense of decency that you're never caught in a situation where you really do need help and not a single person around you is willing to give you a hand. It starts with the small acts.
Thanks to the ones who are always helpful with their replies...(2) it's unfortunate that so many posters have beome so bitter in their responses...perhaps you've been here too long...maybe that's the difference between the lifers and the rest of us. I really don't care though, you have your opinions and I have mine. |
(numbers are mine)
"...really do need help..." And picking an umbrella up from off the floor qualifies as such? If you were lying in the road bleeding and people just walked on by, then I could see that. But it's a freaking umbrella.
2. People are not being bitter particularly not the lifers. However I'd say the majority of the lifers have experienced MUCH MUCH worse than you, and are still able to refrain from painting the entire country with broad xenophobic strokes. They are simply providing some (obviously needed) perspective. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
The Lemon

Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
WOW....a simple morning rant certainly pits foreigner against foreigner. |
More like been-here-centuries foreigner vs. been-here-months foreigner, judging from the posters who chose to take a run at you.
I saw the title ("morning rant") and I knew what followed would be an irrational culture shock-inspired vent (and I'm sure even the old-timers of the community who felt they had to comment went through those at least once). I took it for what it was.
Sure, you were generalizing about a whole country of 50 million people based on the non-action of one woman on a bus - that's obviously shaky ground. But it's what people who are going through culture shock do. Too bad it apparently proved irresistable for some. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
I_Am_Wrong
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Location: whatever
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You're in another culture, deal with it! May sound harsh, but that's the fact of the matter. Sense of decency???? You dropped an umbrella on a bus...oh my god! Why don't most Canadians have the sense of decency to help the poor people that litter Canadian streets???? For your sake, I hope you never travel to another country after Korea cuz you're going to be in for a REAL SHOCK.
grow up. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Gideon

Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Location: Seoul
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
D-E-L-E-T-E ! ! ! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
periwinkle
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
|
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now, why are some of y'all being so nasty? Need a new on-line punching bag? Leave him alone, golldarnit! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
|
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Qinella wrote: |
This thread is a cesspool of idiocy and anger -- quite a haggard combination. |
Yes, there are some opinions on here I dissagree with too, no need to exagerate so dramatically.
Quote: |
You're right guys. I'll go along with your thinking:
1. Common sense is a universally defined term, with specific sets of actions and reactions that don't vary throughout time or cultures.
2. If you want to make a request to someone, using that person's language isn't necessary if the request is basic enough. Common sense says they should already speak your language, anyway.
3. Mannerisms and manners are now the same word.
4. The things Koreans consider to be good manners can be argued against as useless, thus we can conclude that Koreans, in fact, have no manners at all.
Wow, I feel so enlightened. Thanks, guysh.
Q. |
Reducing the opposing view to simplistic abdurdity is not, I don't think, the way to elevate this discussion. It's a valid and complex discussion, or at least it can and should be. I will post more tonight.
How far does cultural relativism go?
Are there NO absolute human values, only "cultural norms"? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|