Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Canada a racist hellhole?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:33 am    Post subject: Canada a racist hellhole? Reply with quote

(I'm not in Canada, so I can't really comment on how accurately this reflects what's going on at ground level. But I am familiar with Margaret Wente, and in my opinion she is a complete and utter moron.)

The Case of the Toronto 17
Has Racism Invaded Canada?
By ROBERT FISK

This has been a good week to be in Canada--or an awful week, depending on your point of view--to understand just how irretrievably biased and potentially racist the Canadian press has become. For, after the arrest of 17 Canadian Muslims on "terrorism" charges, the Toronto Globe and Mail and, to a slightly lesser extent, the National Post, have indulged in an orgy of finger-pointing that must reduce the chances of any fair trial and, at the same time, sow fear in the hearts of the country's more than 700,000 Muslims. In fact, if I were a Canadian Muslim right now, I'd already be checking the airline timetables for a flight out of town. Or is that the purpose of this press campaign?

First, the charges. Even a lawyer for one of the accused has talked of a plot to storm the Parliament in Ottawa, hold MPs hostage and chop off the head of Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Without challenging the "facts" or casting any doubt on their sources--primarily the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or Canada's leak-dripping Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) -- reporters have told their readers that the 17 were variously planning to blow up Parliament, CSIS's headquarters, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and sundry other targets. Every veiled and chadored Muslim woman relative of the accused has been photographed and their pictures printed, often on front pages. "Home-grown terrorists" has become theme of the month--even though the "terrorists" have yet to stand trial.

They were in receipt of "fertilizers", we were told, which could be turned into explosives. When it emerged that Canadian police officers had already switched the "fertilizers" for a less harmful substance, nobody followed up the implications of this apparent "sting". A Buffalo radio station down in the US even announced that the accused had actually received "explosives". Bingo: Guilty before trial.

Of course, the Muslim-bashers have laced this nonsense with the usual pious concern for the rights of the accused. "Before I go on, one disclaimer," purred the Globe and Mail's Margaret Wente. "Nothing has been proved and nobody should rush to judgment." Which, needless to say, Wente then went on to do in the same paragraph. "The exposure of our very own home-grown terrorists, if that's what the men aspired to be, was both predictably shocking and shockingly predictable." And just in case we missed the point of this hypocrisy, Wente ended her column by announcing that "Canada is not exempt from home-grown terrorism". Angry young men are the tinderbox and Islamism is the match.

The country will probably have better luck than most at "putting out the fire", she adds. But who, I wonder, is really lighting the match? For a very unpleasant--albeit initially innocuous--phrase has now found its way into the papers. The accused 17--and, indeed their families and sometimes the country's entire Muslim community--are now referred to as "Canadian-born". Well, yes, they are Canadian-born. But there's a subtle difference between this and being described as a "Canadian"--as other citizens of this vast country are in every other context. And the implications are obvious; there are now two types of Canadian citizen: The Canadian-born variety (Muslims) and Canadians (the rest).

If this seems finicky, try the following sentence from the Globe and Mail's front page on Tuesday, supposedly an eyewitness account of the police arrest operation: "Parked directly outside his ... office was a large, gray, cube-shaped truck and, on the ground nearby, he recognized one of the two brown-skinned young men who had taken possession of the next door rented unit..." Come again? Brown-skinned? What in God's name is this outrageous piece of racism doing on the front page of a major Canadian daily? What is "brown-skinned" supposed to mean--if it is not just a revolting attempt to isolate Muslims as the "other" in Canada's highly multicultural society? I notice, for example, that when the paper obsequiously refers to Toronto's police chief and his reportedly brilliant cops, he is not referred to as "white-skinned" (which he most assuredly is). Amid this swamp, Canada's journalists are managing to soften the realities of their country's new military involvement in Afghanistan.

More than 2,000 troops are deployed around Kandahar in active military operations against Taleban insurgents. They are taking the place of US troops, who will be transferred to fight even more Muslims insurgents in Iraq.

Canada is thus now involved in the Afghan war--those who doubt this should note the country has already shelled out $1.8bn in "defense spending" in Afghanistan and only $500m in "additional expenditures", including humanitarian assistance and democratic renewal (sic)--and, by extension, in Iraq. In other words, Canada has gone to war in the Middle East.

None of this, according to the Canadian foreign minister, could be the cause of Muslim anger at home, although Jack Hooper--the CSIS chief who has a lot to learn about the Middle East but talks far too much--said a few days ago that "we had a high threat profile (in Canada) before Afghanistan. In any event, the presence of Canadians and Canadian forces there has elevated that threat somewhat." I read all this on a flight from Calgary to Ottawa this week, sitting just a row behind Tim Goddard, his wife Sally and daughter Victoria, who were chatting gently and smiling bravely to the crew and fellow passengers. In the cargo hold of our aircraft lay the coffin of Goddard's other daughter, Nichola, the first Canadian woman soldier to be killed in action in Afghanistan.

The next day, he scattered sand on Nichola's coffin at Canada's national military cemetery. A heartrending photograph of him appeared in the Post--but buried away on Page 6. And on the front page? A picture of British policemen standing outside the Bradford home of a Muslim "who may have links to Canada".

Allegedly, of course.

http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk06122006.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wah-Wah. Pity the poor, misunderstood muslims. All this PC bellyaching makes me want to cut of my own head.

�S�
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yoda



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: Incheon, South Korea

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Canada a racist hellhole? Reply with quote

Quote:
The accused 17--and, indeed their families and sometimes the country's entire Muslim community--are now referred to as "Canadian-born". Well, yes, they are Canadian-born. But there's a subtle difference between this and being described as a "Canadian"--as other citizens of this vast country are in every other context. And the implications are obvious; there are now two types of Canadian citizen: The Canadian-born variety (Muslims) and Canadians (the rest).


This analysis seems to be a crock. I think the reference to Canadian-born is to emphasize that they did not become Canadian through immigration. In other words, they are Canadian-born Canadians as opposed to say Pakistani-born Canadians, not as the article would have us believe that they are Canadian-born foreigners who aren't really Canadians.

I think it is valid that the media labels them as such because, otherwise, we would have assumed them to be immigrants. I would have at any rate. Also, the fact that they are Canadian-born (Canadians) is somewhat shocking because we tend to think that our way of life (democracy, human rights, rule of law) is superior and that if these other countries just knew what it was like to live under our freedoms they would embrace it. These kids (some of them) and angry young adults did grow up in Canada but seem to have rejected it. Personally, I do think democracy, human rights, rule of law, and relative economic freedom are the best principles to organize a society but it is an eye opener that people can grow up in that kind of society and still reject it. So the term Canadian-born does seem to be relevant and newsworthy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muslim isn't a race.

And it makes sense, today, to look disproportionately at Muslims when preventing (or trying to prevent) terrorism.

The acts of vandalism against that Mosque in Toronto (17 windows smashed) are deplorable and those who did it I hope will be brought in front of a court. But, if we are going to have a serious debate about modern terrorism, it is necessary to ask "why Islam?" (regardless of what conclusion that will bring us to in the future).

All Canadians, including the press, should be asking serious questions about Islam and the nature of Jihad, should we wish to understand what almost took place.

Islam, the religion, is most certainly under scrutiny, and I don't think that that is in and of itself a bad thing. Provided, of course, that Canadians continue not to pass judgement on a whole group based upon the actions of a few.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grotto



Joined: 21 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until the Islamic community stands up as a whole and denounces any and all acts of terrorism that religion will be on a very slippery slope indeed. The problem is relatively few fanatics can do a lot of damage to the religion in a very short period of time.

Also the moderates are also in fear of these fanatics and are hesitant/reluctant to speak out against them!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grotto wrote:
Until the Islamic community stands up as a whole and denounces any and all acts of terrorism that religion will be on a very slippery slope indeed. The problem is relatively few fanatics can do a lot of damage to the religion in a very short period of time.

Also the moderates are also in fear of these fanatics and are hesitant/reluctant to speak out against them!


They do denounce terrorism.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tiger fancini



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:
Grotto wrote:
Until the Islamic community stands up as a whole and denounces any and all acts of terrorism that religion will be on a very slippery slope indeed. The problem is relatively few fanatics can do a lot of damage to the religion in a very short period of time.

Also the moderates are also in fear of these fanatics and are hesitant/reluctant to speak out against them!


They do denounce terrorism.


Not AS A WHOLE they don't, there is still a minority that favour terrorist tactics. When you look at the total amount of Muslims worldwide, this minority is pretty small, but sadly that's all it takes to do a lot of damage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hollywoodaction wrote:
Grotto wrote:
Until the Islamic community stands up as a whole and denounces any and all acts of terrorism that religion will be on a very slippery slope indeed. The problem is relatively few fanatics can do a lot of damage to the religion in a very short period of time.

Also the moderates are also in fear of these fanatics and are hesitant/reluctant to speak out against them!


They do denounce terrorism.


Not AS A WHOLE they don't, there is still a minority that favour terrorist tactics. When you look at the total amount of Muslims worldwide, this minority is pretty small, but sadly that's all it takes to do a lot of damage.


How exactly would it be possible for Muslims "as a whole" to denounce terrorism? It isn't as if there is a Muslim Pope who is qualified to speak on behalf of all Muslims.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tiger fancini



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:

How exactly would it be possible for Muslims "as a whole" to denounce terrorism? It isn't as if there is a Muslim Pope who is qualified to speak on behalf of all Muslims.


I don't think it would, as there are so many different 'branches' to the religion, and as Grotto pointed out, the 'moderators' are sometimes afraid to denounce the fanatics. I'm sure the Muslims feel that the only person qualified to speak on behalf of all of them would be Allah himself, and unfortunately his words are in text-form only, and open to interpretation. If Allah could appear on earth and say to all of the fanatics "you must stop this terrorism - or YOU will burn in hell" then that might work...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First, the charges. Even a lawyer for one of the accused has talked of a plot to storm the Parliament in Ottawa, hold MPs hostage and chop off the head of Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Without challenging the "facts" or casting any doubt on their sources--primarily the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or Canada's leak-dripping Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) -- reporters have told their readers that the 17 were variously planning to blow up Parliament, CSIS's headquarters, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and sundry other targets. Every veiled and chadored Muslim woman relative of the accused has been photographed and their pictures printed, often on front pages. "Home-grown terrorists" has become theme of the month--even though the "terrorists" have yet to stand trial.

I have a problem with this- the lawyer referred to was a lawyer for the defense: the RCMP and CSIS did leak the details of the most heinious accusations included in the warrants to the press, IT WAS THE DEFENSE LAWYER who leaked these details. There has been a lot of speculation as to his motives, but the general consensus has been that he wanted to illustrate to everyone how ridiculous and sensationalist the charges against his client were and it back-fired, spectacularly. Gee, who would have guessed that anyone would take seriously the threat of a muslim terrorist wanting to behead someone? If that's the quality of the defense, these guys, innocent or guilty, are doomed. I hoped they switched lawyers.

So why is Fisk twisting this incident to make it look like the media are rabid hate-mongers?
You'd think he would know better...

Anyway, I'll end this post with some pics from Snopes for Bigverne:











Would Fisk accuse a newspaper publishing these pictures of sensationalism and fear/hate-mongering?
I suspect he might, but when demonstrators in London turn up holding signs like these, is the news media supposeded to avert their eyes and look away?

I was certainly shocked to see these signs- I can't imagine any Muslim community in the States or Canada holding a demonstration and having people turn up holding signs like these... so WTF is going on in GB/Europe that isn't going on in NA? Is it simply a question of strength in numbers?

Anyway, here's the Snopes link to go with those pics:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

Quote:
Below I have enclosed pictures of Moslems who marched throughout the streets of London during their recent Religion of Peace Demonstration.

These pictures have never been shown in any of our American newspapers or television news programs because we should never appear to offend anyone!

That would certainly appear to be true for Canada as far as I'm aware... again what would Fisk have to say about that I wonder?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have a problem with this- the lawyer referred to was a lawyer for the defense: the RCMP and CSIS did leak the details of the most heinious accusations included in the warrants to the press, IT WAS THE DEFENSE LAWYER who leaked these details. There has been a lot of speculation as to his motives, but the general consensus has been that he wanted to illustrate to everyone how ridiculous and sensationalist the charges against his client were and it back-fired, spectacularly. Gee, who would have guessed that anyone would take seriously the threat of a muslim terrorist wanting to behead someone? If that's the quality of the defense, these guys, innocent or guilty, are doomed. I hoped they switched lawyers.


Yeah, Fisk gives the impression that the defense lawyer was joining in some racist jamboree by talking about the charges as if they were true, when in fact(as Bulsajo says) his whole point seems to have been to discredit the case against his clients. So, the lawyer and Fisk are probably on the same side of the debate, in their belief that the accusations are ridiculous.

Is there any evidence that these guys were suicidal? Because, while it might be possible for 17 terrorists to storm and hold a heavily secured building long enough to hunt down and behead one specific individual, I think it would be pretty obvious to anyone that the whole adventure would end with the terrorists being carried away either in paddy wagons or body bags.


Last edited by On the other hand on Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was certainly shocked to see these signs- I can't imagine any Muslim community in the States or Canada holding a demonstration and having people turn up holding signs like these... so WTF is going on in GB/Europe that isn't going on in NA? Is it simply a question of strength in numbers?


Okay, I know that the Muslim community contains extremely anti-democratic elements, who would happily establish theocracies in Europe and North America, at the barrel of a gun if needs be. However, something about the messages on those signs just strikes me as a little too "over-the-top" to be taken at face value. Freedom go to hell? Behead those who insult Islam? I don't doubt there are Muslims in the UK who think that way, but what's the point of proclaiming those opinions on signs at a public demo? The whole idea of a demo is to win support for your cause, but those signs are clearly calculated to alienate public opinion. It's as if anti-abortion protestors were to walk around with signs saying "Bring back the coat-hangers!!", or socialists with banners reading "Welfare, not work".

I'm sure that the people in those photos ARE Muslim extremists, who do indeed hate freedom and would likely cheer on beheadings. However, I also think that they were making a deliberate effort to be as offensive as possible, for reasons more to do with attention-getting than with any serious expression of opinion.

You're all familiar with Reverend Phelps, right? The anti-gay crusader who pisses off even conservative rednecks by burning Old Glory and harrasing mourners at military funerals. I think the people at that London demo are roughly the Muslim equivalent of him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:

You're all familiar with Reverend Phelps, right? The anti-gay crusader who pisses off even conservative rednecks by burning Old Glory and harrasing mourners at military funerals. I think the people at that London demo are roughly the Muslim equivalent of him.

No doubt, but I'm wondering how that fits into Fisk's attitude towards the Cdn media in the OP. I'm beginning to understand the term 'Fisked'...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
On the other hand wrote:

You're all familiar with Reverend Phelps, right? The anti-gay crusader who pisses off even conservative rednecks by burning Old Glory and harrasing mourners at military funerals. I think the people at that London demo are roughly the Muslim equivalent of him.

No doubt, but I'm wondering how that fits into Fisk's attitude towards the Cdn media in the OP. I'm beginning to understand the term 'Fisked'...


It doesn't really fit in with Fisk's point. Just a bit of thread drift, since you posted the photos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sundubuman



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

typical fisk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International