Korean Job Discussion Forums

[SPINOZA]

[mindmetoo]

[SPINOZA]

[RACETRAITOR]

He's too atheist to be a typical Republican.

[thepeel]

He isn't a republican, he is a libertarian. Big, Big difference. You are trying to "disprove" him by attaching an inappropriate label to him. A very juvenile thing to do.

Here is an interview from Reason Mag.

Love and Memory and Humanity

Magician and novelist Penn Jillette on censorship, sock monkeys, and Bullshit!

Interviewed by Nick Gillespie

State threats to expression rankle the 49-year-old libertarian Jillette, who explains: �I think freedom is always a good idea. I think people are good, and I think people left alone will do the most good possible.� Which isn�t to say he�s an anarchist, exactly. �I think the government is perhaps a necessary evil,� grants the Massachusetts native and proud alumnus of Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey Clown College.

If little has changed regarding governmental disapproval of bad language and bawdy behavior on TV and radio, things certainly are different for Penn these days. In the wake of the 9/11 attacks and increased travel hassles, Penn & Teller now operate out of Las Vegas, where they do six shows a week at the Rio. They recently completed the second season of the brilliant Showtime series Bullshit!, which exposes the flimsy science and false pretenses of everything from recycling programs to the drug war to tantric sex (sorry, Sting). Nominated for two Emmys, including one for �outstanding reality program,� Bullshit! will start shooting its third season in January 2005.

Reason: So here we are, a decade later, and the government is cracking down on free expression.

Penn Jillette: Can we just use the same interview?

Reason: Should we really be worried about censorship? Isn�t expression more beyond control than ever?

Jillette: I don�t really know. What was it�two years ago? maybe a year-and-a-half ago�the top song in the country was by Eminem. It was playing on the radio all the time. During all this talk about censorship getting worse, Eminem had a song that said �*beep* you, Mrs. Bush� at the end of it. There�s still not a lot of countries that would allow that, and we have to make sure that while we fight the good fight, we also celebrate the fact that the fight is being fought at all.


Reason: Do increases in both the number and amounts of FCC fines have a chilling effect on expression?

Jillette: They always do. And it�s always terrible. And you always have those rare heroes that fight against it. You don�t get to pick your heroes. That�s the thing that�s so sad. You end up in bed with pornographers, the Dixie Chicks, and Janet Jackson. Those are not any of the people we would pick, but we have to be with them.

People have to realize that having an imaginary friend may be dangerous. When 9/11 hit, the second thing I said to myself was, �This really is what religious people do.� Those people flying the plane were very good, very pious, truly faithful believers. There�s no other way to paint them. Of course, they are extremists by definition, but they certainly aren�t going against Islam in any real way.

The first thing I said to myself on 9/11 was, �There go our civil rights.� I found out by comparing notes later that George Carlin and I both said that at the exact same time. That�s the first thing that popped into our head.

Reason: How have you been hampered post-9/11?

Jillette: Touring, for one thing.

Reason: Explain that. It�s not like you can only play Gitmo, right?

Jillette: No. But one of the reasons we started doing a regular show in Vegas was because of how difficult it�s become to travel. It�s not the only reason, but it was definitely a factor. When we tour, we have an entire crew of freedom fighters. Every checkpoint that we went through�six or seven a week�somebody would be having an altercation with security.

You know, we have the solution on how to do all the security: Have a man and woman at each gate leading to the airplane strip. They�re stripped from the waist down, and every passenger has to lean over and lightly kiss the genitals of the person of the same sex and then have a piece of bacon. And all hijacking just goes away.

You don�t have to actually have any sexual contact. Just enough so that anybody that has the sexual phobias of the Abrahamic religions [Judaism, Christianity, and Islam] has to violate that deeply. You probably don�t have to pay the two people; they would probably think it was a cool, fun thing to do. You just barely touch your lips with the genitals�just like that�and you have a little piece of bacon and you get on the plane. There�s no searching your luggage. No nothing. We�re all set.

Reason: Bullshit! is a show about calling bullshit on people�s beliefs about everything from the Bible to bottled water to yoga. What�s been the most satisfying episode of Bullshit! so far?

Jillette: Being this intense mama�s boy who�s lost his mom, the most important to me was the one debunking the ability to talk to the dead. That was cathartic and a kind of payback across the decades to Houdini [who inspired Penn & Teller and unmasked mediums as frauds].

The most satisfying ones have been the episodes about People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and Alcoholics Anonymous. Those were also the ones that were hardest to do. People on the staff went, �Whoa, don�t be doing that!� But these are also ones that people came up to us afterwards and said, �We�re so glad that someone finally said this shit about PETA, thank you, thank you, thank you.�

The A.A. one was important to me as someone who is so anti-drug and so anti-alcohol. A.A. takes individual human strengths and [attributes] the strength to quit to something else. It�s this collectivist thing. It�s God. It�s your �higher power.� The one on drug prohibition was also very important to me. When you are a teetotaler and have been all your life, you spend a lot of time telling people, �But no, no, no, I don�t want it outlawed.�

What really gratifies me about Bullshit! is that people who are on the show that we call assholes and stupid dipshits�using those words�those people get back in touch and do not feel that they were taken out of context. How enormous is that? I mean, talk to the people in the Michael Moore movies. Do they feel that way?

I get along so much better with fundamentalist Christians than I do with wishy-washy liberals, who want everyone to get along. I can walk up to a Christian and say, �I�m an atheist. I don�t believe this. State your point.� They state their point. That�s what respect is. Respect can be calling someone �you stupid fucking asshole.�

Reason: I�ll have to try that on my wife. What�s your biggest bullshit belief?

Jillette: I�m always trying to look for bullshit in what I believe. But you can only do so much yourself. You need other people that are going to beat you up on your beliefs. We may do a show on libertarianism. We�d say that this is something that we really believe, and what does it look like when we attack one of our most cherished beliefs? It�s hard to get a real science take on it�something that you could test.

I get that feeling that maybe I endorse some stuff that doesn�t make sense, and I�d like someone to beat me up about that a little more. I have a certain kind of peacenik default in all my interactions. If you ask me, �Should we have been in World War II?,� I instantly say no. World War I, certainly no. Vietnam, certainly no. Iraq, no. I really seem to think that the answer to everything is peace, and I�m not sure I can support that. I have this weird kind of feeling that if I knew enough, maybe peace isn�t always the answer.
http://www.reason.com/0412/cr.ng.love.shtml

And here is his opinion on voting during the last election.

Penn Jillette

Jillette is the larger, louder half of the comedy/magic team Penn & Teller and star of Showtime�s Penn & Teller: Bullshit!

2004 vote: I�m undecided (always the stupidest position). I might do the moral thing and not vote at all, or do the sensible thing and vote Libertarian (Badnarik, right?), or I might make 100 bucks from my buddy Tony and vote for Bush. (I told Tony that Bush and Kerry were exactly the same, and he bet me 100 bucks that I didn�t believe that enough to really truly vote for Bush.) But if you want to be pragmatic, I�m in Nevada, so who cares?

2000 vote: Harry Browne!

Most embarrassing vote: I must have voted Republicrat at least once, but voting is secret -- the Founding Fathers didn�t want us to be embarrassed by our evil pasts.

Favorite president: Teller (he�s president of Buggs and Rudy Discount Productions [Penn & Teller�s company]), because he can lie without saying a word.
http://www.reason.com/0411/fe.dc.whos.shtml

[SPINOZA]

[thepeel]

So, you complain about their means, yet use their means in your criticism.

You are really juvenile.

Bad day?

[Satori]

[mindmetoo]

[thepeel]

Good description MMT. But you forgot one important thing. Conservatives are comfortable with military power for their nations "interests" and Liberals are comfortable with military power for "human rights". Libertarians are against both. No war, unless totally necessary and defensive.

Anyhow, I really like that show. The ep on the "war on drugs" was by far my favorite.

I would really be interested in seeing a Korean show with a similar premise. Debunk 'fan death' and such.

[RACETRAITOR]

My impression of Libertarianism has always been it's a bunch of small- to medium-sized business owners who want to weasel out of taxes.

[Bronski]

Libertarianism is sort of trendy now for some reason. Trey Parker and Matt Stone are the same way. At least Penn & Teller aren't total Bush supporting Libertarians like John Stossel. That makes about as much sense as a Bush supporting communist. I'm not a Libertarian and I disagree with a lot of what they say, but it's nice to see them stick it to the "convential wisdom" every once in a while.

[thepeel]

I'm not a small biz owner and I'm a thoroughgoing libertarian (but I prefer the term 'classical liberal' as it sounds less militant). Also, I don't think that it is trendy now, but that many people are looking for options outside of antiquated partisan ideas. If I believe in a noninterventionist foreign policy, and end to the distasterous war on drugs, am atheist, individual-focused and trust liberal economic ideas then there is really nowhere else for me to go.

Also, libertarians are generally absent of any mysticism in any way. No cosmology, ESP, yoga , blind faith in the benevolent powers of government and a tendency towards atheism/agnosticism (though, when they are religious they want to keep their religion out of public policy) Flakes need not apply!

And there is a spectrum of libertarianism. From Left-libertarians like Chomsky to right libertarians like Mises, Hayek, Johan Norberg and everything in between. I'm on the right, meaning that I don't trust big business and I certainly don't trust big government but I feel comfortable in saying that I broadly trust the market.

Anyway, even if you disagree with their assumptions, I would argue that they make solid contributions to public discourse. Though their (our?) opinions are wildly and widely unpopular outside of a very small community of people in America and England.

[Bronski]

[Qinella]

There was an interesting discussion entitled Would libertarianism work? over at another forum if anyone's interested.