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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: Appeasement Never Seems to Work |
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Looking back on it now, 9-11 really shouldn't have come as a surprise. In a way, we brought it on ourselves. Look at the history we have with Islam.
The hostage crisis in the seventies. World response? Weak. Jimmy Carter couldn't find his ass with both hands.
The bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut. Reagan's response. He had no response. We went home with our tail between our legs.
The Achille Lauro. Response? None.
The flight over Lockerby, Scotland. Response? We actually dropped a couple bombs on Libya. Big deal.
The USS Cole. Response? None.
The Cobar Towers. Response? None.
Iraq invading Kuwait under Bush 41. Response? Removed him from Kuwait. Didn't finish the job.
Saddam Hussein's failed assasination plot of Bush 41. Response? None.
The bombing of the Embassy in Kenya. Response? Blew up an aspirin factory.
Dead Army Rangers being dragged through the streets of Somalia. Response? Flee the country.
Why should any American be surprised at 9/11? We've been letting these idiots punch us in the nose for over twenty years while doing nothing.
Now it's spreading like a cancer through the rest of the world. Spain. England. France. Canada.
Is anyone ever going to stand up, or is the world going to continue to capitulate? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with what you're saying is that you are portraying all those things as if they were all first strikes and not the blowback that many of them were.
The Iranian Hostage Crisis: This was a result of Britain and the US throwing the popular Mossedeq out of power years earlier to prevent oil nationalization. They put the murderous Shah back in power and the result was the rise of "Islamofacsim" in Iran and thus the hostage crisis.
The Bombing of Beirut: Beirut was a convoluted mess to begin with and the US came in and took sides in a civil war and payed the price.
The USS Cole: A US warship in a mideast port, fairgame in my view, if it had been in New York that would have been a different story.
The Cobar Towers: In Bin Laden's Fatawa he directly states the US presence in Arabia is one of the reasons for the war, they shouldn't have been there even if they were invited by a bunch of murderous, head chopping dictators/princes.
The Assassination of Bush: How many world leaders has the US assasinated or tried to or been a party to: Castro, Allende, Mosssedeq, etc. I think its only fair the US have to worry about the same.
The truth is you can't defeat an enemy who is not afraid to die. They not only don't fear death they welcome it and it is viewed as a great thing to do for them. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| The USS Cole: A US warship in a mideast port, fairgame in my view, if it had been in New York that would have been a different story. |
Fair Game?
Those are strong words. I didn't know the U.S. was ever at war with Yeman.
A lot of sailors died on that ship. But what the hell, right? They were fairgame. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
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You know what gets me about guys like you, Octavious, is that you would rather see an American serviceman get killed as opposed to let's say an animal.
I was a sailor during the Bush 41 administration. If it weren't for a Senior Chief who hated my guts and got me stationed in the worst place in the entire United States, I might have been on the USS Cole.
You are nothing more than an apologist for terrorists. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
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right octavius,
and Hitler and his Nazi gangs were blowback from the punitive reparations imposed on Weimar Germany....right???
and Imperial Japan was blowback from European colonialism???
This sick line of reasoning basically exonerates any and all and actually denies the existence of "the other" as a moral actor, constantly referring back to oneself as the progenitor of any and all actions.
Many of us resist the temptation to cocoon our minds in a never-ending search for moral equivalency, you however, seem addicted to that line of thinking.
People like otis are ultimately the ones who sacrifice so that people like you can defend the enemies of our civilization. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| This sick line of reasoning basically exonerates any and all and actually denies the existence of "the other" as a moral actor, constantly referring back to oneself as the progenitor of any and all actions. |
It's an eternal truth that actions have consequences.
A criminal breaks into a boy's house, rapes his mother while everyone watches, guts the father, bids the boy goodnight, and leaves.
A few years later, the boy, now a man, hunts down the fiend and kills him.
The State will try him as a murderer, but the fact is he would not have become one had he not been unfairly made a victim.
| sundubuman wrote: |
| People like otis are ultimately the ones who sacrifice so that people like you can defend the enemies of our civilization. |
Every society is made up in part of thinkers and drones. Here, Octavius is one and otis is another. I'll leave it to you to decide who is which. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| This sick line of reasoning basically exonerates any and all and actually denies the existence of "the other" as a moral actor, constantly referring back to oneself as the progenitor of any and all actions. |
It's an eternal truth that actions have consequences.
A criminal breaks into a boy's house, rapes his mother while everyone watches, guts the father, bids the boy goodnight, and leaves.
A few years later, the boy, now a man, hunts down the fiend and kills him.
The State will try him as a murderer, but the fact is he would not have become one had he not been unfairly made a victim.
| sundubuman wrote: |
| People like otis are ultimately the ones who sacrifice so that people like you can defend the enemies of our civilization. |
Every society is made up in part of thinkers and drones. Here, Octavius is one and otis is another. I'll leave it to you to decide who is which. |
It's funny. I never hear you guys talk about the beheading and torture.
And the culprits aren't even Iraqi.
So we didn't break into their houses, did we, drone? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| This sick line of reasoning basically exonerates any and all and actually denies the existence of "the other" as a moral actor, constantly referring back to oneself as the progenitor of any and all actions. |
It's an eternal truth that actions have consequences.
A criminal breaks into a boy's house, rapes his mother while everyone watches, guts the father, bids the boy goodnight, and leaves.
A few years later, the boy, now a man, hunts down the fiend and kills him.
The State will try him as a murderer, but the fact is he would not have become one had he not been unfairly made a victim.
| sundubuman wrote: |
| People like otis are ultimately the ones who sacrifice so that people like you can defend the enemies of our civilization. |
Every society is made up in part of thinkers and drones. Here, Octavius is one and otis is another. I'll leave it to you to decide who is which. |
HAHA! Excellent. Dogbert, I love you! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| This sick line of reasoning basically exonerates any and all and actually denies the existence of "the other" as a moral actor, constantly referring back to oneself as the progenitor of any and all actions. |
It's an eternal truth that actions have consequences.
A criminal breaks into a boy's house, rapes his mother while everyone watches, guts the father, bids the boy goodnight, and leaves.
A few years later, the boy, now a man, hunts down the fiend and kills him.
The State will try him as a murderer, but the fact is he would not have become one had he not been unfairly made a victim.
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Nonsense . Not all victims become murderers or criminals. In fact very few do. People have the ability of free choice. Hitler had the choice for war or not. He choose war. AQ had the choice whether or not to fly planes into the towers.
Simply because someone does something nasty to you, does not mean you have no choice but to strike back. That line of reasoning is unsupportable.
There was a fellow called Stephen. People were annoyed at him for being a missionary. So they threw stones at him and eventually killed him. While this was going on, what was Stephen doing? Picking up stones and throwing them back? No. He got on his knees and prayed for God to forgive his (eventual) murderers.
See we all have a choice. While Stephen's choice was not one you or I might have made, the point is that at one point the concept of payback breaks down and it simply becomes a cycle of never-ending violence.
Oh and there is a BIG difference between destroying military targets and deliberately targeting civilians in order to spread fear. One is a legitmate target in war, the other is never acceptable. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| otis wrote: |
It's funny. I never hear you guys talk about the beheading and torture.
And the culprits aren't even Iraqi. |
Good point.
What do we do about criminals in the U.S. who torture and kill Americans? Do we torture them to death? Most don't even get the death penalty. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| This sick line of reasoning basically exonerates any and all and actually denies the existence of "the other" as a moral actor, constantly referring back to oneself as the progenitor of any and all actions. |
It's an eternal truth that actions have consequences.
A criminal breaks into a boy's house, rapes his mother while everyone watches, guts the father, bids the boy goodnight, and leaves.
A few years later, the boy, now a man, hunts down the fiend and kills him.
The State will try him as a murderer, but the fact is he would not have become one had he not been unfairly made a victim.
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Nonsense . |
I see I have to dumb it down.
Hagwon student teases for hours a dog that's tied up.
Dog breaks free, bites kid.
Kids parents kill dog for biting kid.
Do you blame the parents or the kid? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: |
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Well, ok let me give it a try.
The men on the USS Cole were not on the Love Boat, they were on a WARSHIP. That makes it fair game, my sister is in the airforce and she knows that if she is in Afghanistan in a LAV she is fair game, its war.
The Nazi's were a direct result of WWI. Its not an apology, its the history. I'm not condoning or even defending them, but I am saying that to defeat your enemy you have to understand where they come from. To ignore the historical lessons is to repeat them, no?
Next, I don't agree with murdering anyone American or Iraqi. Since I'm talking to soldier(s) wasn't your job as a soldier to kill people should they invade your country. America invaded Iraq and now Iraqi's and Muslims are attacking American soldiers in Iraq, that's the way war happens. I know you guys only want to fight wars you can win but thats not the reality. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at Bush and his crime family of millionaires (of which none of them have relatives fighting in Iraq) who started this absurd war and put those guys there. I didn't do it and they went there knowing they may get killed. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
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World response? Weak. Jimmy Carter couldn't find his ass with both hands...He had no response. We went home with our tail between our legs...Response? None...Response? We actually dropped a couple bombs on Libya. Big deal...Response? None...Response? None...Response? Removed him from Kuwait. Didn't finish the job...Response? None...Response? Blew up an aspirin factory...Response? Flee the country...We've been letting these idiots punch us in the nose for over twenty years while doing nothing.
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Hmmm. So you were a sailor during Bush 1's administration. Is that where you learned to whine? |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
Hagwon student teases for hours a dog that's tied up.
Dog breaks free, bites kid.
Kids parents kill dog for biting kid.
Do you blame the parents or the kid? |
The student, the dog and the parents should all be killed.
But seriously. I just love people who take hugely complex, many-tentacled, profoundly world threatening problems and reduce their solutions/explications to facile and idiotic examples that illuminate nothing except the simple-minded natures of the people given to such twaddle.
Last edited by daskalos on Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| This sick line of reasoning basically exonerates any and all and actually denies the existence of "the other" as a moral actor, constantly referring back to oneself as the progenitor of any and all actions. |
It's an eternal truth that actions have consequences.
A criminal breaks into a boy's house, rapes his mother while everyone watches, guts the father, bids the boy goodnight, and leaves.
A few years later, the boy, now a man, hunts down the fiend and kills him.
The State will try him as a murderer, but the fact is he would not have become one had he not been unfairly made a victim.
| sundubuman wrote: |
| People like otis are ultimately the ones who sacrifice so that people like you can defend the enemies of our civilization. |
Every society is made up in part of thinkers and drones. Here, Octavius is one and otis is another. I'll leave it to you to decide who is which. |
HAHA! Excellent. Dogbert, I love you! |
Ok...my decision, Otis is thinking, because thought, without experience, is meaningless and otis has married thought with action, and you, Dogbert, Octavius, and Big Bird are the intellectual moonbat drones, sucking the fumes of thought removed from reality.
but at least you can feel satisfaction in your cocooned moral superiority and concern for those poor Islamic terrorists, who simply are REACTING to provocations, and whose actions warrant no judgment whatsoever because of a million extenuating circumstances. |
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