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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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WorldWide
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Fox news 
enough said, they are a joke. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| This is right up there with the troops finding botox in the doctor's fridge and calling it smoking gun evidence. Gosh, I wouldn't doubt in Iraq even a genuine effort to destroy their chemical weapons would miss some crap. Is it really evidence Saddam had a program in place that required an immediate invasion? The justification was he had an active WMD program, not he had incompetent subordinates who missed some ancient part of his former stockpile. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The justification was that Saddam posed an IMMINANTE threat, we could have mushroom clouds over Cleveland blah blah blah. The truth is (and this is how history will record I suspect) is that Bush and company are a bunch of war mongering profiteers who lied, misled, cheated and were generally bad dudes unlike by anybody except 50% of America and the bigots who live in other countries. Hopefully someone good and decent will win in 2008 and change this ships course before she sinks. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Two Republican lawmakers say a declassified report points to hundreds of weapons of mass destruction that were found in Iraq. Peter Hoekstra, who chairs the House Intelligence Committee, and Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) on Wednesday released a declassified summary of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center. A former weapons inspector says most of the degraded weapons are 20 years old and did not point to an ongoing chemical weapons program.
Guest:
Charles Deulfer, Former chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq; former deputy chairman of the United Nations Weapons Inspection Team in Iraq |
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5504298 |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher????
You really aren't going to keep mouthing those words "Weapons of mass destruction" are you?????
You are like a guy lost for weeks in the desert sucking on his last ice cube.
Please, disinformation is worse than no information.......you are even engaging in it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why didn't you print the title of that paragraph when you copied it?????? You are cheap, crawl back in your hole.
| Quote: |
| Expert: Iraq WMD Find Did Not Point to Ongoing Program |
In Communist countries it is called the Ministry of Information, in America it is the State Dept.
DD
DD |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Someone should take a poll, given the allegations about transference to Syria and this recent discovery...how many posters are willing to suspend judgment? |
I've never trusted the "Iraq shipped it to Syria" argument. For one, if Iraq was being invaded because of WMD, why would Syria readily accept those WMD? And if the US invasion of Iraq was to was ostensibly to remove the threat of WMD, wouldn't the US have followed those WMD to Syria or destroyed them enroute? |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Don't really know the total cost of the war in Iraq, but I think it works out to around 500 million for each useless weapon found.
OP would like to think that the war is now justified, however it reveals more of an embarrassment than anything. Others might think that the WMD were moved to Syria. Just a simple case of wishfull thinking and nothing more. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Doutdes wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Someone should take a poll, given the allegations about transference to Syria and this recent discovery...how many posters are willing to suspend judgment? |
I've never trusted the "Iraq shipped it to Syria" argument. For one, if Iraq was being invaded because of WMD, why would Syria readily accept those WMD? And if the US invasion of Iraq was to was ostensibly to remove the threat of WMD, wouldn't the US have followed those WMD to Syria or destroyed them enroute? |
In any case, my point was not on the credibility of this particular claim (and you offer only speculation and not direct evidence for or against it). I merely point out that partisans are not interested in accepting or evaluating such claims unless such claims strengthen their position or undermine their opponents'.
Dispassionate, data-based discussion is not likely in such an emotional, bitter, polarized environment. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
Gopher????
You really aren't going to keep mouthing those words "Weapons of mass destruction" are you?????
You are like a guy lost for weeks in the desert sucking on his last ice cube.
Please, disinformation is worse than no information.......you are even engaging in it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why didn't you print the title of that paragraph when you copied it?????? You are cheap, crawl back in your hole.
| Quote: |
| Expert: Iraq WMD Find Did Not Point to Ongoing Program |
In Communist countries it is called the Ministry of Information, in America it is the State Dept. |
Ddeubel: as usual, you offer a pathetic personal attack and a terrible argument.
If I had had a history of including the titles of the articles I referenced here, and then I had deliberately omitted this one because I somehow wanted to conceal it (as you seem to allege), then you might have something.
As it is, I do not post the titles of the articles I reference here because the substance is what is important and, obviously, if one wanted to see the entire article, including its title, one merely need open the link, which I try to include with each and every article I post.
I hope you feel better, knowing that you have caused me to waste a few minutes posting this response to your hysterical allegation, but, in any case, it is apparently par for the course in "reasoning" with you...[shrug].
Last edited by Gopher on Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Dispassionate, data-based discussion is not likely in such an emotional, bitter, polarized environment. |
Then why don't you provide a dispassionate, data-based opinion and awe us poor sods with your powers of pure reasoning. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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For the moment, we have this...
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html
It includes a collection of views from each committee member in the end. Other data and documents are forthcoming.
We also have several accounts available, the one I am familiar with being Gordon and Trainor's Cobra II, which references many "insider" views and documents (some still classified), and which makes it very clear that the U.S. govt sincerely believed that Saddam had a weapons of mass destruction capability and/or program, including a nuclear weapons R&D program on the shelf when the U.S. invaded.
This notwithstanding, it now appears clear that the administration politicized the intelligence process and exaggerated the threat Saddam posed, especially on his alleged links to al Qaeda and 9/11. This does not mean, however, that the weapons of mass destruction charge was fabricated out of thin air and was "a lie," as partisan critics bitterly allege.
So, ultimately, the truth of the matter is currently obscured by the shrill rhetoric the partisans and defenders are using -- not the least of which was FoxNews's treatment of this story as it emerged: holding it up as the smoking gun that somehow justifies the invasion and everything that has happened in its aftermath. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| We also have several accounts available, the one I am familiar with being Gordon and Trainor's Cobra II, which references many "insider" views and documents (some still classified), and which makes it very clear that the U.S. govt sincerely believed that Saddam had a weapons of mass destruction capability and/or program, including a nuclear weapons R&D program on the shelf when the U.S. invaded. |
If this is the case -- we can see how terribly incompetent the people in charge are. Numerous high ranking Iraqi scientists and politicians defected and gave explicit denials , including one from Saddam's own circle.
The evidence doesn't just show how "politicized" the issue is -- it also shows incompetence at the highest level and incompetence that has killed thousands of people..........
DD
PS> personally myself -- I can't for the life of me see how the U.S. govt could have NOT known the actual situation. And since when do you make such a policy / invade when you are not 100% certain????? Seems to me they had other reasons, this was just a desert herring. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Doutdes wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Someone should take a poll, given the allegations about transference to Syria and this recent discovery...how many posters are willing to suspend judgment? |
I've never trusted the "Iraq shipped it to Syria" argument. For one, if Iraq was being invaded because of WMD, why would Syria readily accept those WMD? And if the US invasion of Iraq was to was ostensibly to remove the threat of WMD, wouldn't the US have followed those WMD to Syria or destroyed them enroute? |
In any case, my point was not on the credibility of this particular claim (and you offer only speculation and not direct evidence for or against it). I merely point out that partisans are not interested in accepting or evaluating such claims unless such claims strengthen their position or undermine their opponents'.
Dispassionate, data-based discussion is not likely in such an emotional, bitter, polarized environment. |
You think because you fancy yourself a centrist that you're not protecting your own little partisan piece of the field? Inane.
Last edited by EFLtrainer on Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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