Korean Job Discussion Forums

IwalkAlone · Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Location: Daegu

Not sure if you did this for the present school, but talk to actual foreigners working at the school before signing any contract, or before even reading one. Many times the contracts are written in english and the employer only has a vague idea of the clauses. Actual teachers can tell you things such as class loads, financial stability of the school, any scam techniques that were tried, and more importantly to you, the number of foreigners working at the school.

krissy123 · Joined: 19 Jun 2006 Location: Suwon, S.Korea

Hi, thanks for the words of advice! So I moved out of the apartment that day and told my recruiter that I didn't want to work there.
Anyways, eventually we reached an agreement that if I pay for the flight, then the director will cancel the visa application (which has gone as far as immigration giving an issuance #) Immigration told me that the only way I can stay teaching here is if my director cancels the visa...but then my recruiter told me it will be hard to get a job after as cancelling a contract will look bad to future employers (even though this is their fault!)
So, I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this...cancelling a visa at this point, and trying to get another job after? Also, who would have my documents at this point? If it is immigration, and I asked them for them, they would give them to me right?
The director and recruiter have both been so difficult and childish through this whole thing that I barely even want to pay them for the flight...but I suppose I need the visa cancellation? I just want to know what I need to do to be able to get another job, and promptly...thanks for any info!!

joolsd · Joined: 18 Jun 2006

Hey
when ever I apply for any job I always ask for an email of other teachers that work at the school that way you are sure to get an overall opinion of what the place and director is like to work for.
Be good to yourself
Jools

cypher · Joined: 08 Nov 2003

I can only imagine how upsetting and stressful this must be.

I don't know how it works once you've got the visa issuance # but given how they've dealt with you so far, I would not repay all the airfare up front, not until your visa has been cancelled and you have your documents back, either from the school or from immi.

Regarding finding another job, your recruiter is still BSing. You won't have problems, especially since you're already here. I'd suggest ditch that recruiter too.

braunshade · Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Location: Somewhere better!

Yeah, make sure you take care of YOURSELF first before you fork over any cash- otherwise you WILL get screwed. Koreans are like that.

You can easily find another job......go with another recruiter or dont use one at all!

Everything will work out.

ttompatz · Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Location: Kwangju, South Korea

Pak Yu Man · Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Location: The Ida galaxy

Find another job ASAP and ge the new school to pay back your old school. Tell your old school that they'll get their money when you get a VISA. Drop a hint that this school might be a liar and you'll never trust Koreans again. That'll shut them up.

oldfatfarang · Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: On the road to somewhere.

Jinju wrote:
You are basing your opinion of a country based on what a hagwon director does? Does that mean all the people back home wherever you are from are liars because used car salesmen lie? Hagwon directors and owners are pretty much the Korean version of used car salesmen back home. People lie all over the world. lawyers get paid a lot to do it for a living.

Sadly, my opinion about Korean 'lying' is not only based on Hagwon owners' behavior. Last year I spent over 900 hours interviewing Koreans (Kids, Adults, Korean Teachers, Businessmen). (I came to Korea to learn about Confucian culture.)

My Korean experiences, and interviews, show me that lying is endemic in Korean society. Lying is an 'accepted' behavior here, on all levels of society.

Some of my Adult students warned me about Korean 'lying'. They say because they are Korean, 'lying' is not a problem. Koreans 'know' when other Koreans are lying. But 'Foreigners' do not. That is why we Foreigners have problems.

I notice that students lie a lot. My Korean-Teacher students also say that the kids lie a lot (understandable as they are powerless in this hierarchical corporal punishment society). My girl students tell me they "lie every day" (to keep secrets). Some say their mothers lie to protect themselves from their husbands.

One of my Businessmen students even said that he lied to his wife in their marriage negotiations. (He wonders why she makes him sleep on the floor in another room!).

I have travelled and studied extensively in Asian societies (my life and hobby). For me, Koreans do not lie anymore than people in other Asian societies. Lying (especially for advantage) is a survival strategy in Asian societies (save face, cheating for financial advantage, to avoid punishment, distrust of 'strangers' (Asian and Foreigner). I think lying is a daily reality in Asian societies, especially Confucian societies. I think lying is so endemic in Asian societies that many Asians do not even know when they are lying. They just say, and do, what they can get away with.

And, I agree some Western business practices are based on lying, half-truths, and 'lying through ommission'. In my Psych classes the first 2 rows were packed with Salesmen, Insurance and Real Estate people, learning how to take advantage of human gullibility. This is interesting. These Western 'liars' had to LEARN how to lie. Western society condems lying and so they had to learn a behavior that Asian societies teach intrinsicly.
But we all know not to trust a Used Car Saleman/Politician etc. Like Koreans, we know when these 'professionals' are lying - so they are not usually a problem.

But in most daily social and business interactions -Western society demands (and usually gets) honesty. Honesty is part of our social contract. I have not found that premise (on any level) in Asian societies. Take time to look behind the smiles and you will see what I mean.

Hater Depot · Joined: 29 Mar 2005

Don't trust people who lie to you and ask you to break the law. That's always been a successful policy for me.

wylies99 · Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: I'm one cool cat!

ontheway · Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:16 am Post subject:

To clear up some misinformation here:

Once you have a Visa Issuance Number, you are tied to a school. Getting the visa stamped in your passport is just a formality, although required, to enter the country. The actual visa exists. It has been issued. That is why it is called a Visa Issuance Number. So, yes, you do have to be released by the school, otherwise you are bound for one year at immigration.

Once you sign a contract you are bound by the terms of that contract even before the visa application is finished. That is why you should do your homework first, before you sign. Don't expect to sign a contract, come to Korea and then break the contract if you don't like what you find here.

Of course, in this case, the school was wise to let the teacher go. An unhappy teacher would be useless to the school anyway.

krissy123 · Joined: 19 Jun 2006 Location: Suwon, S.Korea

Hopefully this will get sorted and this will be my last post on this subject!...but anyways...my old boss is now saying he doesn't care if he gets the money back or not (he seems to have snapped after I asked for it in writing that he will cancel my visa issuance # after I pay up). Immigration says I need this to be cancelled by my employer...but is there ANYTHING I can do, or anyone I can talk to to fix this? If an employer lied is there no way around this? I really don't want to leave the country, but it seems that might be what I will have to do Sad

ontheway · Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:19 am Post subject:

Krissy123:

Is your old boss now refusing to give you a letter of release? You may have pushed him too hard in demanding that he sign an agreement promising a release letter. After all, you owe him money. You broke the contract. You have damaged his school. Then, you are demanding him to make a guarantee to you.

Is your only problem with the school the lack of other foreign teachers? Are there other Korean English teachers? This was only a small thing, not in the contract, and could have been miscommunication or lies by the recruiter and not by the school.

You do need a release to work in Korea. Once you have a visa issuance number, you are tied to a school. You could try to find a new job and perhaps your new boss could help you get the release. You will still have to repay the airfare. Perhaps the new school will help you.

Remember, the lack of foreign teachers at the school is only a small thing. You broke the contract. You may have caused serious financial damage to the school. You were bound by the contract you signed from the moment you signed it. You could be held liable for damages to the school. The fact that your school, and most schools in similar situations do not pursue teachers who break contracts does not mean that contracts are not enforceable. It means that the cost of pursuing legal action against a teacher is high, the time is better spent looking for another teacher, and chances are the teacher will flee to their home country and have no assets to attach to ensure collection of any damages awarded in court.

It might be better for you to leave Korea and look for work elsewhere until your year has expired. You should still repay the school for the ticket.

You asked if there is anyone who can fix this problem. Yes, there is. It's you. You have to go to your boss and apologize for what you have done to him. You are the one who was wrong.