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Merlyn
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Korea
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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 Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The KSA (or KFA) is incompetent. Just ask some former Korean coaches. Koreans definately deserve better. |
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JJK1
Joined: 22 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
I don't believe either case was deliberate. It is not offside until the ball is through to the offside player, isn't it?
The FIFA Laws of the Game statethat a direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player �handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area).� So assuming we aren�t talking about goalkeepers, there are two things for the referee to decide:
1. Was contact made with the hands?
2. Was it deliberate?
http://www.powaysoccer.com/LOTW/LOTW%201.pdf#search='soccer%20handball%20rule' |
No I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter who recieves the ball for it to be offsides
I'm not so sure about handball rules but in my experience of watching football, ive noticed that it doesn't count as handling when it is unintentional AND its part of the body. For example, when a player has his hands in front of him on his body and the ball hits him, then it doesn't count as handball. But as you can see in the picture, his arms are away from his body touching the ball, whether intentional or not Korea should've gotten a PK |
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4 months left
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| JJK1 wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
I don't believe either case was deliberate. It is not offside until the ball is through to the offside player, isn't it?
The FIFA Laws of the Game statethat a direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player �handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area).� So assuming we aren�t talking about goalkeepers, there are two things for the referee to decide:
1. Was contact made with the hands?
2. Was it deliberate?
http://www.powaysoccer.com/LOTW/LOTW%201.pdf#search='soccer%20handball%20rule' |
No I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter who recieves the ball for it to be offsides
I'm not so sure about handball rules but in my experience of watching football, ive noticed that it doesn't count as handling when it is unintentional AND its part of the body. For example, when a player has his hands in front of him on his body and the ball hits him, then it doesn't count as handball. But as you can see in the picture, his arms are away from his body touching the ball, whether intentional or not Korea should've gotten a PK |
Watching the replays, both were not deliberate. A picture can not tell you if the ball hit the player or they were trying avoid touching it with their hands.
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| And even if goal wasnt offsides, there were two offside passes before the final ball |
What I meant was the play isn't offside until the ball actually goes to the offside player. It does not matter how many passes there are if the player is in an offside position. The offside rule comes into play when the ball passes the last defender to the the offside player. Passes made while a player is in an offside position are irrelavent. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:10 am Post subject: |
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I've heard that the pass was not actually directed to Frei but to another Swiss player. It was intercepted en route by Ho. It was either deflected by Ho or deliberately played by him. Maybe he was trying to pass it to the goalkeeper.
That may make a difference perhaps.
In any case, the Korean players should have played until the whistle. They should know better.
I believe they judge handballs by this usually. Is it hand to ball (deliberate) or ball to hand (unintentional). I think there is a high probability that they were unintentional. Just look at the faces of the Swiss players in the videos. |
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spinario
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: daegu
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Zulu wrote: |
| spinario wrote: |
| And to suggest that Korea wouldn't have scored a goal is conjecture. |
Hence to suggest that (if the second Swiss goal was disallowed) Korea would have scored the 2 goals necessary to advance is twice the conjecture.
Fact is, they didn't score any goals, they LOST and so buh-bye Korea. |
This made me laugh. Thanks Zulu. I don't need scotch to ease me into the night. Your non sequitur will do.
Oh, and I swear my allegiance to Ukraine. Off to bed so I can get up bright and early.
Let's go Gold and Blue. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| It's now on YouTube. Again, and again, and again, and again (with good English commentary), and again (w/ the hand bills included). |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| The offside test. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: |
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This is pathetic. Korea's loss:
- Korea scored no goals at any time, thus, the complaint would have to be that neither of the Swiss goals were good.
- If the above is not the case, the only complaint should be about the quality of the officials and clarity of the rule. There simply is no issue of Korea being robbed of a win.
US's loss:
- The US was tied 1:1 at the time, meaning, since a tie did them no god, Ghana essentially had a two-goal advantage, and the US foul that got them the kick was so blatantly bad as to be without any doubt in any quarter.
Finally:
- Unless Korean's are willing to revisit all the assists they got from questionable calls in 2002, well....
Shut up, Korea. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Upon looking at it again and reading up on things it now seems obvious it wasn't offside. If you watch you can see Frei is onside when the Swiss player passes the ball. Frei is behind the defender when Ho the Korean player kicks the ball. Doesn't matter though. He was onside when the sequence started and as I have read, possession is not changed on a deflection. So it is if it was a pass to him directly. He was onside when the pass started so that's all that matters.
That is how I see it anyway. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Guri Guy wrote: |
Upon looking at it again and reading up on things it now seems obvious it wasn't offside. If you watch you can see Frei is onside when the Swiss player passes the ball. Frei is behind the defender when Ho the Korean player kicks the ball. Doesn't matter though. He was onside when the sequence started and as I have read, possession is not changed on a deflection. So it is if it was a pass to him directly. He was onside when the pass started so that's all that matters.
That is how I see it anyway. |
I have seen this now too. Frei is definitely not offside when the Swiss player kicks the ball. He is only in the offside position when the Korean player touches the ball. My ruling: onside.
Regarding the handballs. Neither handballs directly stopped a goal and neither looked deliberate. There are handballs in the box every game. We would have to start replaying every game if they wanted to right all of them. Either way, it's over, the Swiss are out and people can just forget about it. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
even if the goal was disallowed.. the score is still 1:0!!
I dont know why koreans are crying about it...
now if the score was 1:1 and that goal was allowed to give the swiss a 2:1 lead then yes!! by gods name RIOT in the swiss!! and be crazy!!
fact is.. Korea didnt score!! |
You're ignoring the point. If it was a bad call, it was a bad call.
Moreover, IF the game had have been 1-0 ... they would only have needed a single goal for a draw. If it would have been ruled an offside, the whole dynamic & game's potential outcome would have shifted.
I'm assuming you're not familiar with the Butterfly effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:12 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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4 months left
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
even if the goal was disallowed.. the score is still 1:0!!
I dont know why koreans are crying about it...
now if the score was 1:1 and that goal was allowed to give the swiss a 2:1 lead then yes!! by gods name RIOT in the swiss!! and be crazy!!
fact is.. Korea didnt score!! |
You're ignoring the point. If it was a bad call, it was a bad call.
Moreover, IF the game had have been 1-0 ... they would only have needed a single goal for a draw.
I'm assuming you're not fmailiar with the Beijing Butterfly theory. |
They needed to win to advance, a tie and they still were eliminated. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 4 months left wrote: |
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
even if the goal was disallowed.. the score is still 1:0!!
I dont know why koreans are crying about it...
now if the score was 1:1 and that goal was allowed to give the swiss a 2:1 lead then yes!! by gods name RIOT in the swiss!! and be crazy!!
fact is.. Korea didnt score!! |
You're ignoring the point. If it was a bad call, it was a bad call.
Moreover, IF the game had have been 1-0 ... they would only have needed a single goal for a draw.
I'm assuming you're not fmailiar with the Beijing Butterfly theory. |
They needed to win to advance, a tie and they still were eliminated. |
But the BUTTERFLY EFFECT, thats what you are forgetting. if it was 1-0 Advocaat would have brought in a buterfly which would have scored the goal the human Koreans couldnt. The mighty Butterfly and its mighty effect. |
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