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Is Declaring English the Official Lang. "Racist"?
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Is Declaring English the Official Lang. "Racist"?
Yes
15%
 15%  [ 8 ]
No
84%
 84%  [ 44 ]
Total Votes : 52

Author Message
Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:19 am    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

Yeah, so if we give them say in it, the official language will be Spanish. *beep* all you English speakers.

Not racist one bit. The country was built under the wing of English speakers, and made great by the same people.


Octavius Hite wrote:
Racist. It's clear that the intent of the move is to show Latino's whose in charge. The fact that it is coming out now in middle of a huge immigration fight and an election campaign is no surprise. Like gay marriage in the last few elections, the republicans will use this to fool the redneck vote into believing that the dems want to make them speak spanish and turn the country over to the dark people. Thats whats going on here and everyone (whose educated and been paying attention since 2000) knows it.
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Newbie



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why don't they just get it over with and declare "American" as their official language
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Moldy Rutabaga



Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There may be racists who are trying to use the language issue to intimidate the Latinos, but making an official language isn't racist in itself because, as someone's pointed out, language and race aren't the same. An Anglo-Saxon can be brought up as a native Spanish speaker.

Futile, maybe. Countries always seem to enact these measures when their national languages are under threat, and it never works. Charlemagne tried to prop up Latin; the modern French try to keep out the English with 'academies'; many in the early USA tried vainly to keep German as the national language!

Ken:>
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

It's not racist; it's linguist. Laughing

Seriously, I said no.

But, to echo other posters, I believe the impetus for this at this time is largely racist.

It's an isolationist policy.
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it is racist -- bigoted is the right word.

A slap in the face to all the Hispanics, who have been there longer than any English speaking person, historically speaking (and which make up a large % of America). Same with native Americans. A slap in the face to America's rich past of immigration.

There is just NO need for this and it is pure politics, as Octavius I think, pointed out. Bigoted politics, like making abortion, gay marriage and all those other "morality" issues - part of a political platform. Meant to divide not bring forth serious debate on how the country should be run.

DD
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the motivation behind declaring a national language is based on fear, in this case, fear of Spanish speakers.

While many immigrants don't learn to speak English, by the third generation, their descendants do. It's just a practical necessity. We've always had pockets of ethnic groups who maintain the language of their home of origin, but it isn't a real problem. Immigrants encourage their kids to learn English. English is the gateway to jobs and a future in an English-speaking country.

We don't need laws and amendments to enforce a natural process. And we especially don't need laws created in a climate of fear.
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Octavius Hite



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end it doesn't matter because despite all the hate of these bigoted people soon enough demographics will win the war and hispanics will take up their huge role in government and society, lol.
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue itself might not be (entirely) racist, but it is so effectively.

As TB pointed out, it is a symbolic issue, and the conservatives are trotting out all the old symbolic issues to get the emotional vote- "official language", flag burning, same sex marriage, immigration in general, etc.

As a symbolic issue, the official language issues hits several emotional cords- race is one of them. There is also fear- of "invasion" ("invasion" is a term used a lot in pro U.S. English, anti-immigration rhetoric) and of outsiders in general, and brown skinned outsiders in particular. People fear for their own economic futures, and the language issue is inextricably bound up with the immigration issue and immigrants "taking American's jobs".

This issue is not new- it has cycled through the States, along with immigration issues, with the ebb and flow of the economy and with wars. The last time it was a big issue was the late 80's and early 90's- then it just kind of went off the radar during the booming 90's (Clinton not only had a great economy, but no wars). Now it is back, as they say, with a vengence.
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
I think the motivation behind declaring a national language is based on fear, in this case, fear of Spanish speakers.

While many immigrants don't learn to speak English, by the third generation, their descendants do. It's just a practical necessity. We've always had pockets of ethnic groups who maintain the language of their home of origin, but it isn't a real problem. Immigrants encourage their kids to learn English. English is the gateway to jobs and a future in an English-speaking country.

We don't need laws and amendments to enforce a natural process. And we especially don't need laws created in a climate of fear.


You are exactly right except for one thing- in recent years the language replacement rate in the US (English replacing the immigrant's native tongue) is not 3 generations, but 2.5. And in the U.S., it is replacement- the mother tongue is quickly lost by the family- this isn't the case in other places, where the children become bi or tri lingual.

People hear Spanish a lot because of the steady arrival of Spanish speakers and the retention of Spanish by the first generation.

But, not to worry, this wave of hysteria will pass- not until it hurts a lot of people in the process, but it will pass.
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cubanlord



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

call me crazy, but, i think a country's "official" language should be the language that is most frequently used throughout the nation. Hence, English would be the one for the U.S.A.

Is this to say one cannot change the labeling in 20 years if the predominant language becomes something other than English, no. It should be amendable.
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not racist. Just myopic and provincial.
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubanlord wrote:
call me crazy, but, i think a country's "official" language should be the language that is most frequently used throughout the nation. Hence, English would be the one for the U.S.A.

Is this to say one cannot change the labeling in 20 years if the predominant language becomes something other than English, no. It should be amendable.


What is meant by "Official Language" is that it is the one and only language to be used by governments, schools, etc.

In Miami, where I believe you are from, Cubanlord, the official English movement wanted, in the early 90's, to eliminate all signage in any language other than English- including the danger warning signs at the Tri-Rail and Metro Rail stations, and the scientific Latin information signs at the Zoo. A clerk at Publix, during that period, was fired for speaking Spanish with a customer. Can you imagine Miami with no signs or official public business communications in Spanish (and Creole)?

No one argues that English is not the dominant language, and, judging by how we ESL'ers are traveling the world teaching it, the world's dominant language, but some want to basically ban Spanish (and don't be fooled, the target is Spanish, or should I say, Spanish speakers.

One argument, by the way, against it being considered "racist" is that it is aimed predominantly at Spanish speakers, and Spanish speakers come in races from Anglo to Black, including native Chinese-Cubans and pure-blood indigenous Mexicans (Indians).
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dulouz



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd don't mind bi-lingual education as long as its a language worth learning like French, German, Japanese, Chinese and even perhaps even korean but Latin American Spanish should be avoided like the plauge. I'd don't feel like assimilating into the perpetaul train wreck known as Latin American "culture".

I have lived next to the Mexicans for a long time now I live with them and I have now have cause and no hesitation about making blanket statements. They are bad people, perhaps not all but most, that is over 50% . The language issue isn't about language, its about the "re"conquest.

Meixcan lie cheat and steal everyday in this country? Why should anyone be nice to them? Bilingualism in this regard is just succumbing to intimdation. Its called Dhimmitude.
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
have lived next to the Mexicans for a long time now I live with them and I have now have cause and no hesitation about making blanket statements. They are bad people, perhaps not all but most, that is over 50% . The language issue isn't about language, its about the "re"conquest.

Meixcan lie cheat and steal everyday in this country? Why should anyone be nice to them? Bilingualism in this regard is just succumbing to intimdation. Its called Dhimmitude.


Crawl back into your hole and slick back your cow lick. I have lived next door to your type for a long time now (black, white, Spanish, Korean, Muslim, Christian) and I have now have cause and no hestitation about telling you what dirt you are.

DD

PS> mods, this is a factual statement based on previous posts and no way inFLAMitory.
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Octavius Hite



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my Mexican co-worker at this public school might disagree with you.
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