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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| . However, any land claim that is dated 1867 or later (and dont be fooled, there are plenty of those) . |
Links please to these "plenty"...you have made this claim and the burden of proof rests with you. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:37 am Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote:
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| It's the ADVANTAGES natives get which are great |
So here's my litmus test: If Aboriginal's in Canada have it so great and you were granted one wish (just say you found the magic affirmative action genie and he can give you one wish) you are telling me and all those reading this forum that you would wish to be Aboriginal in Canada. You would go live on a northern reserve and not finish high school because you were huffing gas, you would enjoy tax free and mortgage free living in a house on reserve with 15 of your closest family members, you would would go out and get drunk and then have the Regina police department leave iyou in the -40 night without a jacket. You would have your children attend residential school.
So if they have it so great you must be ready to go and live that life. I don't think so. What I love about Canadians is our singular ability to believe that we are so hard done by people who little to nothing whether it be Innu in Labrador or Somili refugees, we really shine sometimes. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:40 am Post subject: |
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SOME first nations people live on reserves huffing gas and getting drunk, and they don't take advantage of the many opportunities they are given, such as free education.
SOME first nations people make something of themselves. They go to school, or start small businesses, or just try to get normal jobs.
The difference between these two kinds of first nations people is the same difference found in any ethnic, or cultural, or whatever group of people.
Some people see that you must be able to rely on yourself and take responsiblity for yourself if you want things in life. No money? These people ask themselves "what can I do about it"...and they do it.
Some people see that things aren't going so well in their lives and they think "who can I blame"....and the answer is never THEMSELVES.
Let's not forget, OH, that there are many successful aboriginal people in Canada and we should ask why. Where do you factor in personal responsibility? |
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Apple Scruff
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Jesus fucking Christ, Octavius, you don't understand shit.
No one in their right mind wants to go live on a reserve. They're dirty, depressing and riddled with drug use and crime. And the whole point I've been trying to get across is that the reserves DON'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY. They get assloads of financial help from their cruel, "disrespectful" government, and they don't do squat with it. They piss away our tax dollars on I-don't-know-what, but if I were to wager a guess, I'd say I could find the answer somewhere around their Chief's mansions and luxury SUVs.
Stop being such a PC bitch and accept the fact that some people create their own problems. The government and the white man can only do so much evil at a time, you know. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I was thinking: when I was in BC the First Nations people out there make pretty big bank on tourism. Why is it that Ontario/Quebec First Nations people can't do something to bring tourists to their reserves? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:48 am Post subject: |
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I wanted to see these LAND CLAIMS not treaties. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
| Quote: |
| It's the ADVANTAGES natives get which are great |
So here's my litmus test: If Aboriginal's in Canada have it so great and you were granted one wish (just say you found the magic affirmative action genie and he can give you one wish) you are telling me and all those reading this forum that you would wish to be Aboriginal in Canada. You would go live on a northern reserve and not finish high school because you were huffing gas, you would enjoy tax free and mortgage free living in a house on reserve with 15 of your closest family members, you would would go out and get drunk and then have the Regina police department leave iyou in the -40 night without a jacket. You would have your children attend residential school.
So if they have it so great you must be ready to go and live that life. I don't think so. What I love about Canadians is our singular ability to believe that we are so hard done by people who little to nothing whether it be Innu in Labrador or Somili refugees, we really shine sometimes. |
Do you need remedial reading? Really? Where did I say I want to live on a reserve or wish to be Aboriginal in Canada. I said I would like their advantages.
And not all Aborginals drop out of high school or huff gas or get drunk...I love how liberals reveal their own bigotted thinking and racist thought processes. Because that is what you said "Aborginal in Canada.." and then you went on to describe a very nasty racially sterotyped scenario. In other words describing what you think Aboriginal life in Canada is like. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| You said you want the benefits well aboriginals don't get most of those benefits without living on a reserve, thus if you think the benefits are that great, reserve life can't be that bad. What I was saying was a test, whenever non-Aboriginal Canadians talk about the great life so many Aboriginals have I ask them the question, if you could would you change spots? Anyone who says yes is a liar, anyone who deflects (like you, I think) is in denial or just ignorant but most realize that what they are saying is just mumbo jumbo that hate filled people like to spread to try and find a scapegoat for bad government policy or too many taxes. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: |
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I was thinking: when I was in BC the First Nations people out there make pretty big bank on tourism. Why is it that Ontario/Quebec First Nations people can't do something to bring tourists to their reserves?
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It's just an amateur assessment, but I would guess that BC in general does astronomically better with tourism than does Ontario or Quebec. I'm hard pressed to think of somewhere in BC that I've been to that wasn't absolutely stunning. No problem coming up with such locales for Ontario. Even Ottawa, while charming, probably wouldn't seem particularly extraordinary to someone whose been to any other world capital.
Quebec City is pretty singular as far as North America goes, not sure about the rest of Quebec though. I'm taken to understand that Montreal is pretty cool, though I doubt there are too many First Nations jurisdictions within the city limits to take advantage of it the toruism potential.
(By the way, I am not from BC, and my dismal assessment of Ontario would also go for my home province of Alberta, minus the mountains.) |
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| After living with Natives for a good portion of 5 years (I had natives part of my family). They are the laziest bunch of mofos on earth they deserve to be where they are. Fack them Dead beat drunken social problem that they are. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: yes |
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Well don't we wish there were more people like you. So many people could trace their ancestory back a ways and discover that 90% of the population of Canada doesn't have to pay tax.
We need tax payers to build a nation.
As far as 'being unique and different', goodie for you. But what about immigrants from Poland? Are they not unique too? The French Canadians? Not unique? Immigrants from Africa? We're all the same, right?
This whole debate has been done ad nauseum. We're all humans, so we're all equal (in theory), but some of us seem to be more equal in some areas.
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Well, one of the things that needs to be done is that an Aboriginal must be made the Minister for Indian Affairs, the fact that it is a white guy running it all makes me crazy. Also, Indian Bands have to be held to a higher accounting standard and must be openingly democratic to get government money. Those are just two suggestion i've got. |
Yes, most definitly about whitie in that office. Being 1/8 Metis, I know relatively nothing about Indian affairs (though I was told I could apply for aboriginal status and never pay taxes again, but I would feel like crap for the rest of my life taking money from people who need it.) |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject: yes |
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Sorry if someone disagrees with it, but I have seen a good half a dozen reserves, and I have seen almost the same thing as Apple Scruff said.
I saw a bunch of run down shacks, and one really big home with a brand new sports car in front (chief's house).
Last I heard, reserves had 90% unemployment, and somehow it's our fault. Me myself, I would go where the jobs are (the city) and stop the blame game. It gets really old and turns open minded people into racists.
| Apple Scruff wrote: |
Jesus *beep* Christ, Octavius, you don't understand *beep*.
No one in their right mind wants to go live on a reserve. They're dirty, depressing and riddled with drug use and crime. And the whole point I've been trying to get across is that the reserves DON'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY. They get assloads of financial help from their cruel, "disrespectful" government, and they don't do squat with it. They piss away our tax dollars on I-don't-know-what, but if I were to wager a guess, I'd say I could find the answer somewhere around their Chief's mansions and luxury SUVs.
Stop being such a PC *beep* and accept the fact that some people create their own problems. The government and the white man can only do so much evil at a time, you know. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't start blaming individuals just bad government policy. I never said that we should give them more or less just that policy needs to change. Those changes need to be made by Aboriginals with the government. As for the taxes, you guys make me laugh, thats all Canadians can talk about like its some great thing, give me a break, don't make your hatred of taxes make you a racist. Also they didn't get the tax deal because they were special, it was negotiated by the governments of the day in exchange for the reserve system, helping the british, payment for some of their land, etc. It was a buisness transaction and at the time it made sense. Its also not as broad as you would think since 70% of Aborignials live off-reserve.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/aboriginals/faqs.html
| Quote: |
Do aboriginals pay taxes?
That depends.
In general, aboriginals pay taxes just like other people in Canada. However, there are exemptions under the Indian Act. The act says that the "personal property of an Indian or a band situated on a reserve" is tax exempt. M?is and Inuit are not eligible for this exemption.
The act says that a Status Indian working on a reserve is exempt from income taxes. However, there is a complicated formula involved here � the location of the duties and residence of the employee and employer must be taken into consideration.
And Status Indians do not generally pay the federal goods and services tax or provincial sales tax if they buy something on a reserve or if it is destined for a reserve.
밢ff-reserve, we all get stuck with it,?notes Restoule.
The Indian Act also forbids non-Indian governments from taxing the property of Status Indians on a reserve. But the act does gives Indian governments the power to impose some property taxes, and some land claims may also allow Indian governments to collect sales taxes on selected products.
Do aboriginals get free post-secondary education?
Again, it depends. And again, Inuit and M?is are exempted from the free post-secondary education that some Status Indians receive.
This is how it works: Ottawa provides education money to Indian bands, which in turn decide whose education to finance.
밡ot everyone is entitled to the money ?There뭩 a cap. The money has been frozen for 20 years or so,?says Victoria De La Ronde, director of treaty policy with the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs.
Because there is only so much money for post-secondary education, she says some bands may decide to fund only those pursuing their first degree, or perhaps only those living on the reserve. |
And just because there are a few crooked chiefs does not justify so much hate I see on this board (although now I know why many of you are here and not there). |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| You said you want the benefits well aboriginals don't get most of those benefits without living on a reserve, thus if you think the benefits are that great, reserve life can't be that bad. What I was saying was a test, whenever non-Aboriginal Canadians talk about the great life so many Aboriginals have I ask them the question, if you could would you change spots? Anyone who says yes is a liar, anyone who deflects (like you, I think) is in denial or just ignorant but most realize that what they are saying is just mumbo jumbo that hate filled people like to spread to try and find a scapegoat for bad government policy or too many taxes. |
No I said I would be happy with HALF those benefits (in exchange for living where I wanted.) And most Canadians that I know (you are American I think) don't talk about the great LIFE the Aboriginals have, they talk about the great BENEFITS. There is a big difference. And if I had those benefits I could easily set up and be running a very successful business (maybe a casino) as some Aboriginal tribes are doing now and making a lot of money. I wouldn't be sitting on my butt sniffing glue, that's for sure.
And your caracture of Aboriginal life is wrong-headed and racist. Yes many Aboriginals have a very large number of those problems. No not all them do do. Some are becoming quite successful due to their casinos and other businesses. |
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