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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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 Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: Re: What would it take to convince you that . . . |
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You got it!
Incidentally, Flotsam, what does your avatar say?
Is that Arabic? |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: What would it take to convince you that . . . |
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| tomato wrote: |
You got it!
Incidentally, Flotsam, what does your avatar say?
Is that Arabic? |
Not exactly. The whole diagram is meant to represent the Sikh symbol of the Khandra:
But it replaces the blades with various religious symbols representative of Punjab:
The Omkar
For Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism.
The Star and Crescent
For Islam.
The Cross
For Christianity.
The Ek Onkar
For Sikhism, but as it is a form of the Tattwas...
It really stands for all the Indian religions as well.
And if you look closely off on the side you will see:
The Happy Human
Of Humanism bumping off the butt of the Omkar. Which is a somewhat fitting tribute, as I see it.
The mosaic is meant to represent the collection of religions represented in Punjab, their syncretic mergence in Sikihism and the overall similarities and potential for cohesion and cooperation between all faiths. It is placed at the India-Pakistan border at Wagah where Pakistani and Indian soldiers compete with each other every day in militant marching antics at the flag retreat ceremony each evening. The adjacent billboard reads: Welcome to India, The Largest Democracy In The World.
And I think that's pretty cool. So I took a photo. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Tiberious aka Sparkles wrote: |
| flotsam wrote: |
That was so cool.
The thread discussing whether or not WW should be banned was zapped just as I was writing a post. Hit submit and got a big fat: Only Moderators Can Respond To Posts In This Forum Message.
Now I'm convinced. |
WW is wackers.
And you are Jongno Guru!!!
Poktanju*_* |
Why would you say a thing like that? I think you're wrong -- JongnoGuru always seemed like a decent guy, not the sort of person who'd conduct himself the way Flotsam has. Why did he leave the board so suddenly, though? |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| No. |
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re:cursive
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:21 am Post subject: Re: What would it take to convince you that . . . |
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| tomato wrote: |
. . . God exists?
? if there were a religion composed of people who were measurably smarter, more creative, physically healthier, and morally better than believers in any other religion.
? if there were a scripture which was free from inconsistencies and historical errors, and revealing scientific knowledge which is more advanced than that of the people living at the time.
? if there were a religion which was infallible in its prophesies.
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None of the above.
| tomato wrote: |
. . . UFO stories are real?
? if an extraterrestrial materialized himself for all to see. |
If this included me personally...perhaps. However, I've been witness to some fairly strange phenomena, illusions and/ or mutated realities that make me think I would still question this apparent "materialisation".
| tomato wrote: |
| ? if an approaching spacecraft were seen by all the astronomers on one side of the world. |
No.
| tomato wrote: |
. . . claims made by yogis, psychics, or mediums are real?
? if a psychic consistently made predictions which came true.
? if a yogi, psychic, or medium passed a test in front of a skeptic group or a stage magician.
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Well, obviously after the fact I would believe that the specific claim was true (hmm...maybe not though). However, that would probably not be enough to convince me that any future claim would be true.
Although it likely seems a complete contradiction... I am still somewhat of a believer. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:47 am Post subject: |
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In order to believe that God exists, there would need to be two things:
1. A concrete definition.
2. Physical proof, such as a manifestation.
As it is now, God has almost as many definitions as the f-bomb.
UFOs? Even seeing one wouldn't convince me. It could easily be a hoax. It would take a whole hell of a lot of evidence, including but not limited to extended communication, photographs and information from their home, and an introduction of some knowledge or physical matter that we humans do not have.
Or, just some superpowers. If the alien and float around, morph into other beings, communicate telepathically, or something like that, I'd be a believer.
Claims by yogis, mediums, psychics? Well, James Randi has an offer that's still on the table. But a lot of things like that are non-falsifiable. If something is non-falsifiable, I probably don't believe it, and won't. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
So..derek/Flotsam/jongnoguru..
Some quotes from Thomas edison:
Have faith and go forward.
Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge....
Its obvious that we don't know one millionth of one percent about anything.
I believe that the science of chemistry alone almost proves the existence of an intelligent creator. |
Well shucky darn. I guess he wasn't a doubting Thomas. OK, hastily thrown out example, but the point still stands. (And I replace him with Mao...  ) I would say there have been many, many quite accomplished dudes and dudettes that did not rely on on faith for inspiration. And there are probably more and more as time goes on. Not, actually, that I have a beef with belief as the source of the muse, just that I think basically declaring it a prerequisite for greatness is going too far.
P.S. I know you are really Troll_Bait. |
Darn, you've caught me. Junior's the sock that I use when I want to tell the world about the approximately 40 Korean women I've dated. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: |
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나이스 썃! |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Hehe. Lot's of good stuff in this thread. Cheers Satori(if I read your post right....)
And Red Dog, this is what I am going to do for you: I am going to, right here, right now, switch you over to...Red Dog...
(Grasp how much of a public statement I am making...)
So, do me a favor, and get a grip, will you?
As to your question, as I have already mentioned in another thread: JG is out of the country for a while(unless you are him...).
But finally, as a mere formality, and as promised--here you go:
| flotsam wrote: |
Public announcement: Red Dog please don't stalk me around threads and be a twat. I have explained why I abused you once and have now engaged you through PM (in order to let you vent your frustration about being so effortlessly manhandled) but you have declined to respond. Which is fine. But making you look like a broken-off end is an unchallenging exercise in redundancy(of minimal amusement value), and I will simply respond to you in the future by referencing this post, so do piss off.
Life is short.
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Now, embrace the Shanti and deal. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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It's nice to know that JG hasn't deserted the boards, but I don't know why you think anyone pays attention to or cares about your stupid colour-coding system. I guess it must have some profound significance, though.  |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| red dog wrote: |
| It's nice to know that JG hasn't deserted the boards, but I don't know why you think anyone pays attention to or cares about your stupid colour-coding system. I guess it must have some profound significance, though. |
*Sigh*
Another missed opportunity at peace. Well, back to the stick(and the dead horse) then.
| flotsam wrote: |
Public announcement: Red Dog please don't stalk me around threads and be a twat. I have explained why I abused you once and have now engaged you through PM (in order to let you vent your frustration about being so effortlessly manhandled) but you have declined to respond. Which is fine. But making you look like a broken-off end is an unchallenging exercise in redundancy(of minimal amusement value), and I will simply respond to you in the future by referencing this post, so do piss off.
Life is short.
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WorldWide
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that God is for suckers, but Satan is for 13 year olds... |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: What would it take to convince you that . . . |
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| tomato wrote: |
. . . God exists?
■ if there were a religion composed of people who were measurably smarter, more creative, physically healthier, and morally better than believers in any other religion.
■ if there were a scripture which was free from inconsistencies and historical errors, and revealing scientific knowledge which is more advanced than that of the people living at the time.
■ if there were a religion which was infallible in its prophesies. |
Which concept of God? From many perspectives, the existence of the Divine never escapes us. As the saying goes, a Redwood tree lives for hundreds of years, but never moves. A butterfly lives for a few days. A butterfly sitting on a Redwood would never think the Redwood alive.
Get deep enough through meditations and inner reflection and you need no faith or belief in God. You don't need faith or belief in a pencil to make it work. Neither do you need faith or belief in God to experience it.
In general, it seems like you've drafted a loaded question moreso aimed at theists.
| tomato wrote: |
. . . UFO stories are real?
■ if an extraterrestrial materialized himself for all to see.
In the Sixties, there were jokes about space aliens landing in front of an Earthling and saying, "Take me to your leader."
I wish a space alien really would land and say that.
■ if an approaching spacecraft were seen by all the astronomers on one side of the world. |
As with so many things, an agnostic approach seems the most responsible. To disregard the startling amount of evidence in favor of some degree of extra-planetary visitation seems childish. I think it may have only been two or three years ago that the White House was evacuated and a military lockdown was ordered due to several UFOs right over the White House. The level of governmental obfuscation over the issue further supports the contention that something has been going on. The sheer bulk of video evidence - not all of it nearly ask sketchy as the short clips publicized for mainstream dis-consumption - also seems weighty. But, in the absence of solid evidence (like the yielding metal supposedly acquired in Roswell), I think it highly probable, but I wouldn't suggest that it is happening or has happened.
The wise choice seems analog, not digital.
| tomato wrote: |
. . . claims made by yogis, psychics, or mediums are real?
■ if a psychic consistently made predictions which came true.
In 1984, there was to be a world war with the United States and the Soviet Union allied against Communist China. Then a world ruler would appear and there would be everlasting peace.
At least, that's what Jeane Dixon said.
■ if a yogi, psychic, or medium passed a test in front of a skeptic group or a stage magician.
Remember The Amazing Randi? He admits that he perform all his tricks by sleight of hand, and with no help from the supernatural powers. He challenges anyone else to perform a trick any other way. In fact, he has a one-million-dollar check waiting for the first person who can meet this challenge.
Randi is only one of the many parties offering cash prizes to persons who can prove paranormal claims. A few days ago, I saw a Website providing a long list of such parties.
A psychic claimant may say, "Oh, but I use my powers to help people, not to get rich." Fine. Let that psychic receive Randi's check and forward it to the Katrina victims. That will help people, won't it? |
You seem to have an all-or-nothing approach that will not serve you well. Such fundamentalisms do not promote understanding.
Anyway, take the example of a baseball slugger. When they go up to bat, do they hit the ball 100% of the time? A fantastic slugger may earn an average somewhere around .350. If a highly selective test (such as one conducted at PEAR or the University of Arizona's Global Consciousness Project) returns a value of 40%, by your estimation, it would still be inadmissable. The literature abounds with so many successfull experiments it seems absurd to discount them all. Using meta-analysis (where cumulative results from tens of thousands of studies get combined) to determine odds-against-chance of results, we can easily see that the odds of getting a single test result with such degree of success falls well into the millions. In other words, it would take millions of repetitive testing in order for chance alone to produce the results observed. When you consider that thousands of cumulative tests return odds-against-chance values in the millions, then it seems reasonable to conclude that something seems to be happening.
Randi has an incredibly bad reputation as a fundamentalist materialist, a liar, and a pompous fool. The psi community stopped paying him any attention decades ago. He wrote some good skeptical content years ago, but he has well gotten bitter.
You might reference Dean Radin's The Conscious Universe: The Scientific Proof of Psychic Phenomena, or Entangled Minds: Extrasensory Perceptions in a Quantum Reality, Michael Schmicker's Best Evidence. You might also benefit from viewing the Consciousness series. The studies in consciousness series has several excellent texts, including Goswami's Self Aware Universe.
Healthy skepticism serves a valuable purpose. Stubborn skepticism in the face of overwhelming evidence prohibits progress.
Namaste. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: What would it take to convince you that . . . |
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
| I think it may have only been two or three years ago that the White House was evacuated and a military lockdown was ordered due to several UFOs right over the White House. |
If the extraterrestrials were after Bush, I'm sorry they missed.
| Quote: |
| You might reference Dean Radin's The Conscious Universe: The Scientific Proof of Psychic Phenomena, or Entangled Minds: Extrasensory Perceptions in a Quantum Reality, Michael Schmicker's Best Evidence. |
All three are reasonably priced on the Amazon Website.
I'll order them as soon as I find out my new address. |
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